Yamaha C3 or G3
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Yamaha C3 or G3
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Yamaha C3 and a G3? Is there a particularly good vintage for Yamaha grands?
The G3 was discontinued some time in the mid nineties, so there will be a fair number of C3s that are newer, but basically the differences in UK models when they were concurrent were:
Different rim shape
C3 had duplexing and G3s did not.
Casework on the G3 is simpler, with plain edges to the lid and less sculpting of legs and lyre.
Late model C3s benefitted from Ivorite keys which are porous plastic with a 'grain' appearance, whilst G3s did not.
Late model C3s had a slow damped fall.
C3s allegedly used better wood samples for soundboards and better hammer heads.
For grey imports the distinction is slightly blurred in that:
Some Japanese market G3s had optional celeste sytems operated by a stop under the keyboard.
Later G3s had duplex scales to a lesser extent than on the C3, ie fewer notes were duplexed.
Best models were the C3F and G3RE. UK market ones will always be worth more than imports which are identifiable by the plastic pocket tacked to the inside of the rim on the flat side. It's fair to say that there was a greater difference between early examples (C3s labelled "Conservatory") than later ones. It's generally often thought that the C3 was cheapened over time until there was little point in running two models. I think conversely that the G3 was continually improved, but it's true that a few minor details which were so superb on both G and C grands have disappeared from the current models. The fold-away wing-nuts securing the cheeks is one case in point.
Different rim shape
C3 had duplexing and G3s did not.
Casework on the G3 is simpler, with plain edges to the lid and less sculpting of legs and lyre.
Late model C3s benefitted from Ivorite keys which are porous plastic with a 'grain' appearance, whilst G3s did not.
Late model C3s had a slow damped fall.
C3s allegedly used better wood samples for soundboards and better hammer heads.
For grey imports the distinction is slightly blurred in that:
Some Japanese market G3s had optional celeste sytems operated by a stop under the keyboard.
Later G3s had duplex scales to a lesser extent than on the C3, ie fewer notes were duplexed.
Best models were the C3F and G3RE. UK market ones will always be worth more than imports which are identifiable by the plastic pocket tacked to the inside of the rim on the flat side. It's fair to say that there was a greater difference between early examples (C3s labelled "Conservatory") than later ones. It's generally often thought that the C3 was cheapened over time until there was little point in running two models. I think conversely that the G3 was continually improved, but it's true that a few minor details which were so superb on both G and C grands have disappeared from the current models. The fold-away wing-nuts securing the cheeks is one case in point.
Thanks for the detailed info! How do these Yamahas compare with Kawai grands of similar size and vintage (say mid 1980s onwards)? It looks as though prices are comparable. I'm looking for a grand piano for under £10000 and would welcome any advice as I'm unsure whether or not to go for a much older restored well-respected make.
Older Kawais are very poor compared to Yamahas. Tuning stability is below par and actions feel dead.J C Hobbs wrote:Thanks for the detailed info! How do these Yamahas compare with Kawai grands of similar size and vintage (say mid 1980s onwards)? It looks as though prices are comparable. I'm looking for a grand piano for under £10000 and would welcome any advice as I'm unsure whether or not to go for a much older restored well-respected make.
An older restored top brand is only as good as the restorer.
Piano Guy, I agree with you about kawais generally not being as good as Yamahas, yet I have known a couple of older Kawais to be exceptional pianos, way better than yamaha. True enough, they are the exception rather than the rule but its interesting. One in particular had the most beautiful singing tone and responsive (yet heavy) action. It was a 1970 KG-2C. Fantastic piano really!
I am sure that's true. Nothing wrong with the build quality of Kawai, so I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but generally I have found them to be inferior to their Yamaha rivals. This is not the case with current models which are much improved and certainly comparable. Never met a KG-2C that I liked though!joseph wrote:Piano Guy, I agree with you about kawais generally not being as good as Yamahas, yet I have known a couple of older Kawais to be exceptional pianos, way better than yamaha. True enough, they are the exception rather than the rule but its interesting. One in particular had the most beautiful singing tone and responsive (yet heavy) action. It was a 1970 KG-2C. Fantastic piano really!
I've never heard of that on a grand piano - I bought an upright earlier in the year mostly on the basis that I often need a celeste rail so as not to disturb people, but i figured that ruled out grands entirely... if there is some way to minimize the volume on a grand piano for practice that'd be a very interesting thing to know more about.PianoGuy wrote: Some Japanese market G3s had optional celeste sytems operated by a stop under the keyboard.
(Well, maybe a grand with a silent system will appear in my stocking at christmas, but if not...)
Is that a silent system in your stocking or are you just pleased to see me?(Well, maybe a grand with a silent system will appear in my stocking at christmas, but if not...)
I'll get my coat....
"Each day grow older, and learn something new."
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
The celeste in a G-series appears to utilise the mountings that would be used for the hammer-stop in a Silent piano, or it could be vice-versa! Either way, the fitment is rare even on imported G-series grands, so it's not worth beating yourself up over! In many years of tuning Yamahas I've only ever encountered about three examples!djtoast wrote:
I've never heard of that on a grand piano - I bought an upright earlier in the year mostly on the basis that I often need a celeste rail so as not to disturb people, but i figured that ruled out grands entirely...