Random thoughts or comments...

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 15 Apr 2014, 19:07

Gill the Piano wrote:
dave brum wrote:It's all these rings you wear. They restrict your movement in the hands!!!
Stupid boy; never heard of weight training?
.

Only for pianists with sausage finger syndrome.....

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 09:31

On Monday, we had three of the series of popular songbooks published by A&C Black come into the shop. However they were in a really bad condition, the covers were jaundiced, the binding was torn from the rings and consequently I could not sell them, unless it's to myself for a donation negotiated by the shop manager. But the actual pages were legible despite not passing quality control and they can be read by a musician. The clear fonts used, the easy (Grade 3-4) piano arrangements of every song featured and the ring binding, making it easy to place on a music stand made the series popular in their intended usage fields (schools, childrens' groups and Sunday schools) but many of the series contained a huge selection of folk songs from Britain and around the world, such as Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger stuff, hymns and songs from the Caribbean, and cockney 'knees up round the old Joanna' favourites.

It's such a pain knowing I can't sell these gems (we had a few of them in school back in the 70s/80s which is why I know lots of the songs featured and played by either Miss Taylor, Miss Carter or Mr.Higgins). Have you ever used them, Gill and Fiona????

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 09:31

On Monday, we had three of the series of popular songbooks published by A&C Black come into the shop. However they were in a really bad condition, the covers were jaundiced, the binding was torn from the rings and consequently I could not sell them, unless it's to myself for a donation negotiated by the shop manager. But the actual pages were legible despite not passing quality control and they can be read by a musician. The clear fonts used, the easy (Grade 3-4) piano arrangements of every song featured and the ring binding, making it easy to place on a music stand made the series popular in their intended usage fields (schools, childrens' groups and Sunday schools) but many of the series contained a huge selection of folk songs from Britain and around the world, such as Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger stuff, hymns and songs from the Caribbean, and cockney 'knees up round the old Joanna' favourites.

It's such a pain knowing I can't sell these gems (we had a few of them in school back in the 70s/80s which is why I know lots of the songs featured and played by either Miss Taylor, Miss Carter or Mr.Higgins). Have you ever used them, Gill and Fiona????

We had 'Okki Tokki Unga', 'Apusskidu' and 'Someone's Singing Lord' in the shop, with OTU featuring the Becontree belter 'Knees Up Mother Brown'.

Post by **Feg** » 17 Apr 2014, 15:54

I know Okki Tokki Unga and Appusskidu from my playing for kids days. I still have copies of them here.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 16:17

'Carol Gaily Carol', 'Ta ra ra boom de ay...' the list goes on. The latter is my favourite one as it's got My Old Man Said Follow The Van, I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles and Pack Up Your Troubles (from WW1) in it, plus I think 'So Long, It's Been Good To Know Ya', which we used to sing at school and my introduction to Woody and Arlo Guthrie.

I should have also mentioned a selection of hymns from the same stable as 'Lord Of The Dance', but when I made the original posting this morning, I could not think of the name of the bloke wot wrote them but the name came to me walking up the Bristol Road. Sydney Carter.

Post by **Feg** » 17 Apr 2014, 16:47

I have another one from the same stable - The Jolly Herring.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 16:55

Feg wrote:I have another one from the same stable - The Jolly Herring.

Not heard of that one. Put it into Google just to see if I could get some contents information, but all I could glean is that it contains 77 folk songs. Possibly a bit of crossover with Ta ra ra boom de ay there. Possibly the LoB might have it in, they've got most of the A&C Blacks in there.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 17 Apr 2014, 17:46

I think there were quite a few sea shanties in the JH. Yes, I sold millions of 'em in my days in the music shop, and I think nearly every music teacher of A Certain Vintage would have any or all of 'em. Brilliant books.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 18:55

I know Gill, which is so frustrating that I have to send them away. I'd thought of getting the Ta ra ra boom de ay and photocopying the page that has I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles on it to an iron on transfer thingy and putting it onto a claret and blue shirt to give to my wife as a birthday present. I want to give her a photo (signed) of Boris Johnson.....have to get on to Boris' office I think! A perfect present for an exiled Londoner!!

In infants school we used SSL along with another one (but not in the same series) called Sing It In The Morning. The old Greyhound song '...a child is black, a child is white, the whole world looks upon the sight, such a beautiful sight...' was in that book and we used to sing that song too, especially appropriate as the neo-Nazi National Front were active in Smethwick at that time. Imagine my surprise when I actually heard the Greyhound version played on Jimmy Savile's Old record Club on Radio 1!! 'Oh, I hnow that song, we sing/used to sing it at school!'

All those books will be collectors items very very soon, I think. Alas, beyond my playability at this present time though.

Post by **Feg** » 17 Apr 2014, 20:20

A few choice titles from JH

I'm the urban spaceman
The wreck of the John B
This old hammer
Penny Lane
Right said Fred

Somewhat of an eclectic mix

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 17 Apr 2014, 21:00

Feg wrote:A few choice titles from JH

I'm the urban spaceman
The wreck of the John B
This old hammer
Penny Lane
Right said Fred

Somewhat of an eclectic mix

Not the Bonzo Dog Band avec Monsieur Vivian Stanshall! Though I think Octopuses Garden (pardon my misuse of the apostrophe, Ringo didn't seem to care) may be in Ta ra ra boom de ay.

I couldn't imagine a kids choir doing Right Said Fred, even back in the 1970s!!!

Post by **Feg** » 17 Apr 2014, 22:09

JH is most certainly NOT PC - not one little bit

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 18 Apr 2014, 06:34

Anything to keep children away from Radio 1/Crapital/Chav FM and towards a good, inclusive and catholic musical education (which will help develop a worldly, open minded outlook and free thought) is a good thing in my opinion, and what better way to start than with folk songs and a bit of Urban Spaceman?

Fancy being a carilloneur, ladies??

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/whats-o ... ry-6991177

There's one in Loughborough and the carilloneur is called Caroline. Caroline the carolling carilloneur, how's that for a tingue twoster this time of the morning???

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 18 Apr 2014, 13:14

Feg wrote:JH is most certainly NOT PC - not one little bit

An excellent reason to buy it; loads on eBay from 99p.
I saw the carillon on Flog It, i think; she wears a pair of driving gloves and plays with a curled fist - she played something specifically written for that particular carillon. It might have been by Elgar but i could be (probably am) wrong!

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 18 Apr 2014, 18:45

Feg wrote:JH is most certainly NOT PC - not one little bit

Please Sir/Miss, what are 'lucifers' and 'fags'?? Though I can imagine a reprint with Ebeneezer Goode included: 'E's are good, E's are good.....Has anybody got any Vera's, laaaaavly!!' Or maybe Blur Parklife??

Right, what are the odds on your first hymn at both venues on Sunday being Christ the lord is ris'n today (All-e-looo-ya) Bet Frederick, are you reading this???

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 18 Apr 2014, 20:01

Piano practice tonight in my dressing gown. I'm afraid it's the second time in so many days that I've wet my trousers.

You see, we've bought a Karcher pressure washer and we've spent a couple of sunny days blasting, both our sheds, the car, the conservatory roof, the garden path, my neighbours' patio and patio set, but it means we're dirty and soaked to the skin when we're done. Fun.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 18 Apr 2014, 20:04

The Jolly Herring is in stock at the LoB:

https://library-opac.birmingham.gov.uk/ ... ly+herring

Right, bags it.....

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 19 Apr 2014, 16:27

Those Karchers are a liability; my next door neighbour got one and his missus said that if it kept still long enough, it got pressure washed. She kept moving until the novelty wore off. Now the patio/paintwork is back to normal!

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 19 Apr 2014, 19:35

What I don't like are the range of ancillary products with the Karcher name on that retail at a tenner in Wickes and are really yet another marketing con. Like patio cleaner, wood cleaner, car cleaner et cetera. Our garden path has come up like new with no thanks to Karcher stoneware cleaner, and a sterling job has been achieved on everything else with just neat water at high pressure. You could use washing up liquid or car champoux but is it really necessary?? Even caustic soda couldn't get my neighbours' plastic patio set back to its natural white colour like an all over blast (why is the spellchecker saying I've misspelled 'neighbour' and 'colour' when I haven't and I'm not in the USA?? - Licence (no it hasn't red lined it) Jewellery (yes) Defence (yes) Manoeuvre (yes!!!))

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 19 Apr 2014, 19:40

The result of today's visit to the largest public library in Europe:

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 20 Apr 2014, 14:11

dave brum wrote:Right, what are the odds on your first hymn at both venues on Sunday being Christ the lord is ris'n today (All-e-looo-ya) Bet Frederick, are you reading this???

Spot on, Batman!

Keep the hymn playing quiet or you'll be strongarmed into playing the organ somewhere before you know it...

We could give the spellcheck a breakdown by typing in Welsh; all my emus to my fellow Welsh learners are underlined in frilly red...

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 14:26

I'm only learning to play two hymns at the moment. Glorious Things Of Thee Are Spoken (no idea what the tune is called apart from Deutschlandlied) and Blaenwern, which I'm only up to bar 4 of. Both versions are easy play versions.

I'm a proud anti-establishment Leftie so no church in its right mind would touch me with a bargepole, so I need not worry about getting cajoled into playing the organ anywhere. There is also the small matter of not being a 'Christ, Ian!!' also.....

The Director of Music at my local anglican place (know who I mean, Gill??) wouldn't allow me near the organ there in spite. So play on without fear!

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 15:40

This is the version of Blaenwern I'm learning. I'm up to the end of bar 4. You would probably think it looks dead easy Gill but to me, it's full of hand twistery compared with the classical stuff I'm doing with my teacher in Classics To Moderns 1. The left hand in bar 7 doesn't look good. I've been having a go at it just now and even though I can play it, it takes me quite a while to think about it, but with the awkward hand position, my poor sight reading and having to concentrate on the RH also means I cannot play it without disturbing the rhythm of the hymn and actually looking down at the keyboard, by which time I've lost my place!

My fear is that musically speaking, I may be trying to eat sirloin steak whilst I'm still not fully off the Cow and Gate!!

Post by **Feg** » 20 Apr 2014, 16:23

Dave - bar seven - a shortcut to success.

In the left hand you have a minim A with a crotchet F# then a crotchet A above. Make your life easy and play the F# as a minim with the lower A (a sixth) and omit the upper A crotchet. This will make the left hand in bar seven have the same rhythmic pattern as the preceding six bars which will help with the learning.

Get thee a 2B pencil and start scoring out notes. That F# to A is not needed harmonically so don't play it

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 16:54

That's much better. Thank you, Auntie Fiona!!!

It's that part of the tune where, even though it's in G it seems to 'modulate' into the next key on the circle, which is D. Like say for example you come across (in G) a chord of D and the C above it, and then straight to the root and third (G, B). The A and G (bottom space and top space) are characteristic of D major, followed by the D/F#.

I do hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew. My teacher has given me two tunes to learn before the 13th May and I've just learned one of them (Mozart Minuet, CTM1 p12)

Post by **Feg** » 20 Apr 2014, 17:38

The other thing to remember is that you can move the lower note of a RH chord to the LH making a chord in the LH and a single melody note in the RH - and vice versa if that is your wish. If you want to photograph the whole arrangement, Gill and I can talk you through making your life easier whilst not compromising the harmony.

This is a skill borne from years of sight reading piano accompaniments for various soloists - I'm glad it is coming in handy

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 18:30

I could do that Fiona but I don't think it will help me to become a good sight reader if I keep making alterations to pieces that I don't NEED to make. As you say, you've done this for years so you know the whole thing inside out. You can just read something and think in a split second 'shall I play it like that or shall I play it like that?' I'm just learning about arpeggios, what they sound like, but also how they're notated. Plus, don't forget the stuff I'm doing now with Teach are easier than the hymn tunes in this library book ('Hymn Tunes for the Reluctant Organist' arranged by Janette Cooper and published by OUP).

It's a bit queer though, seeing fifths (bar 6 LH, bar 13 LH for example) fingered as 1,3 and sixths not fingered as 1,5 because it's that that makes me disorientated and makes me look down at the keyboard.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 19:29

Jolly Herring, much more difficult that the Hymns For Reluctant Organists but each and every song is a little gem. Some I know but quite a few I would love to hear, Settle-Carlisle railway, Jolly Herring, Broadside Man (which erroneously mentions Worcester as being on the Dee but is in actual fact on the Severn as we all know). Air from Hair....Not all of these songs are on Youtube, but I wish I knew someone locally who plays the piano so I can ask to play some of these lovely English and otherwise folk songs (perhaps I could sing along to them...?)

Post by **Feg** » 20 Apr 2014, 19:40

Gill and I had to start learning to do this - I doubt we were born with these skills

I was taught to 'edit' music by my piano teacher when I was at secondary school. He was not only a brilliant teacher and pianist but a very gifted composer and arranger of music. We often had lessons when he would disagree with the edition/editors marks and out would come the soft pencil and an impromptu lesson in fingering/writing for the piano/history of composition/No way would *insert name of composer* have written that bar like that

I still have my music from that time with his notations in pencil.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 19:52

What you also have to remember is that I'm learning as an adult what you learned to do as a child so you could have experimented more with structures, pieces etc. and could play around with them more. Our absent friend Gizzy once told me how she can transpose any tune from its written key into any other key and, in school assembly (where it was her job to play the hymn/song) she could get the whole school to sing a semitone higher if she was feeling particularly cruel one day!!!

I'm doing transposing with my teacher but only on the ADAD pink book!!

But the whole thing does make me wish I'd learned as a child because of all the joy I've missed out upon....However, I try not to dwell upon that. I just learn in the here and now.

Post by **Feg** » 20 Apr 2014, 21:27

Learning in the here and now is good:)

Transposition at sight is a black art - THE END.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 20 Apr 2014, 21:39

Just seen this in the HTFRO book. Now that IS difficult!

So I think I'll concentrate on what I excel at, putting emotional expression into classical pieces! (but I'll finish learning Blaenwern first).

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 21 Apr 2014, 14:48

Cwm Rhondda looks difficult because it's laid out quite densely. Count 8 to a bar (quavers) and do it very slowly. In a normal old-fashioned hymnbook it tends to be minims rather than crotchets as the main beats and therefore looks less BLACK AND SCARY. The key to all this is Don't Panic and Don't Be Afraid To Miss Out The Odd Note!

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 22 Apr 2014, 06:04

Changing the subject....went here yesterday but they were shut!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjk11ZppQuI

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 22 Apr 2014, 09:17

...and I visit the 'Starship Trafford' yesterday and David Moyes gets the Big E. Foot, Balls!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 22 Apr 2014, 17:47

I contacted that shop when I was researching my dissertation but they couldn't be ar$ed to reply to me. Tried twice, gave up.
I don't see this Moyes thing; it's not as though HE misses the goalmouth, is it? Or lets the goals in? He could go back to Radio 1 playing for the (tone)deaf, I suppose...

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 22 Apr 2014, 19:04

It's been top story on BBC News all day. Not the sports news but the news news. If it was Liverpool FC getting rid of their bloke, or any other team in the Celebrity League, it would not get such blanket coverage. Favouritism and unfair reportage, they're just another football team with players, fans (usually uneducated ruffians) and bank accounts.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 22 Apr 2014, 19:30

Gill the Piano wrote: He could go back to Radio 1 playing for the (tone)deaf, I suppose...

That's Chris Moyes apparently, with the ginger hair. Him.

I couldn't go where I wanted to go in Manchester yesterday because the places on my list were closed, Forsyths, Oxfam Emporium on Oldham St etc. Never made it to Afflecks palace (boho megastore) but I had to spend two hours with my wife in the National Footballs Museum looking around pig's bladder kickery-aboutery and pretend to be interested. But we did go into Dawsons music shop and I had a play around on some pianos (aided by a pocket full of photocopies from CTM1) whilst my wife pretended to be interested.

I could have walked down all the way to Johnny Roadhouse's music store on Oxford Road if we'd had the time....

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 23 Apr 2014, 18:05

dave brum wrote: I couldn't go where I wanted to go in Manchester yesterday because the places on my list were closed, Forsyths, Oxfam Emporium on Oldham St etc.

At least that kept the cost down...
There's a brick in the football museum which Eric contributed; it had been fired in the kiln with 'The Busby Babes RIP' on or something like, from the air disaster.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 24 Apr 2014, 10:32

Can someone please tell me what the apostrophes (they could be commas) are in the music of Blaenwern? Are they 'breathing spaces' or something, where the organist/pianist holds back just to enable the congregation to intake their lungs??

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 24 Apr 2014, 18:06

Denotes the end of each line of the hymn. Except only asthmatics and the elderly should need to breathe at each one!

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 24 Apr 2014, 20:41

Gill the Piano wrote:Denotes the end of each line of the hymn. Except only asthmatics and the elderly should need to breathe at each one!

The average church attendee in 2014 then!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 25 Apr 2014, 03:31

dave brum wrote:The average church attendee in 2014 then!

Well this one, certainly...

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 25 Apr 2014, 06:41

...and what were you doing up at 0331 then? Tuning a piano for Mr and Mrs Brown in Exeter today, are we??

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 25 Apr 2014, 12:37

Vis a vis Blaenwern, as I learn more of the tune, I am noticing one of my trademark habits of either playing from memory and getting it wrong, or 'guessing' where I think I should be after I've learned the music, rather than following the dots as I play. It's hard to explain but I really do not know why I do it. I might learn a phrase or line, from the printed music, and over time practice it until I can play it....and then move on and learn the next line but as I do, I start making mistakes on the line I've just learned and practiced upon. It's a really strange one but is something like this a common problem, or just unique to muggins 'ere. I don't know. Help!

Should I just abandon trying to play hymn tunes and other stuff as side projects and just concentrate on just the stuff my teacher has asked me to do, and come back to Blaenwern maybe in another few months??

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 25 Apr 2014, 17:49

dave brum wrote:...and what were you doing up at 0331 then? Tuning a piano for Mr and Mrs Brown in Exeter today, are we??

Because paradoxically, the more I need to sleep the less I can actually sleep. And rather than keep Earache awake I thought I'd get a hot water bottle and poke about on the pooter while I waited for the kettle.
Re Blaenwern; just keep a close awareness of how you're playing and as soon as you think you may be going off piste, bring your attention GENTLY back to the dots and focus, without recriminations or beating yourself up or berating yourself.

Post by **Feg** » 25 Apr 2014, 17:53

Gosh, Dave, I think we all do that to some extent or another

I'm sure that the bits and pieces I play to check over a customer's piano bear little resemblance to the printed dots on the page. Every so often I dig out the actual music to remind myself of how the pieces should be played and then merrily forget it the next time I'm sitting in front of the instrument.

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 25 Apr 2014, 18:12

Have I beat myself up or berated myself?? And am I going to just close the book and say 'sod this'? No. No. No. No, I think it would be good to just go back a couple of steps until I can follow the dots properly. And see what happens. The things I'm doing with teacher are coming along nicely (two pieces) and I've got all of 2 1/2 weeks to practice them.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 25 Apr 2014, 18:44

I'm not saying he HAD done that, Feg; but he would have done at one point! ("Who's HE, the cat's mother?" I can hear my ma saying...)
Just take it steady and refocus your attention. I have the same problem when I try meditation! And Feg is right; if you're learning it for yourself then relax and let the odd 'improvisation' through the net...

dave brum · Post by **dave brum** » 25 Apr 2014, 19:37

This is one of my 2 homework pieces and the one I'm working on currently. I'm just about up to bar 8 but changing from the LH position in bar 6 to the LH position in bar 7 is really difficult. I either hesitate or stop altogether, stretch an octave or a 6th instead of a 7th, fail to find the G below mid C and have to 'guess' where I am, or play it correctly and screw the RH up! However on the positive side I can play the LH and RH parts separately without looking down.