Young Chang G157

[classic-keyboard]

I'm interested in this piano which is being offered by a dealer with significant damage to the casework - all cosmetic, but ugly. What I'm trying to figure out is what the piano would be worth with a perfect case. The serial number G083728 suggests it's around 1994 (pre-Pramberger). Obviously I have some concerns about whether a piano so beaten up on the outside could still be good on the inside but, leaving that for the moment, I'd still like to have a feeling for the 'theoretical' value.

I can't find much in the way of recent, UK, prices for this model.

[NewAge]

A quick Google shows several pianos of the same make & model. However whether they approximate to the same date is anyone's guess. Also prices are variable to some extent depending on location.
You mention "significant casework damage - all cosmetic." Are you sure about this? Was this told to you by the dealer? If the piano has been damaged during a removal, it may have suffered more than your eye can see, or more than a dealer wishes to admit. There are dishonest ones out there - none of which are regular posters here of course. (I note that one web dealer describes his 5' 2" Young Chang G157 in one sweeping statement: 'One of the world's finest grand pianos - hand made in South Korea').........
Like yourself I would have serious doubts about a 19 year old piano with significant case damage, wondering what maintenance/regulation if any it has received during that period.
Of course no dealer worth his salt would attempt to sell a piano without having it at least tuned, so if this piano plays and sounds like a dream, that you believe the price suits your wallet (compared to other similar size & price pianos), and subject to the piano being checked out & given the green light by a competent tech, you may be onto a winner. If you can live with a (quote) "ugly" piano.
Please keep us updated.

[classic-keyboard]

The dealer is Besbrode in Leeds. You can see the piano on their website.

This morning they sent me a comprehensive set of high-res images showing the damage, which looks to me like (a) the piano has been kept in a room with other equipment that's been banged up against it and (b) something has been sitting on the music desk, possibly an electronic keyboard. Both of these seem familiar to me from some of the recording studios I've been in but equally a school or college. The piano has been through their workshop and they say it's fine.

My problem is trying to decide how much I'm theoretically saving over the price of a similar piano with no damage.

[joe]

The value is in what it's worth to you?,have u played the instrument,and why are the company not carrying out repairs to casework themselves and trying to sell for more.Young Chang where grossly overpriced when sold 20 years ago and I would not pay £300 never mind £3000 for one of that age.

[classic-keyboard]

Joe,

Thank you for your frank view. No I haven't seen the piano yet; it's a long way away and I'm trying to learn what I can about the deal before deciding whether I should make the journey or not (actually the dealer has offered to deliver it to me 'on approval' if I pay the delivery costs in the event I reject it). Yes I could take the day out and go play it; fall in love with it; decide I can afford it and buy it. But then I'd always wonder if I could have got the same thing for the same money without the case damage.

The dealer says that the only realistic repair option would be a complete re-polyester job (and seeing the pictures I'm inclined to agree). I guess this would cost over £3k, doubling the price of the piano, and even I can see it's not worth £6,000 plus.

Your view is that it isn't worth £3,000 (or even £300) regardless of its condition. You obviously know a lot more about pianos than I do. It would be easier for me to decide if there were other examples of G-157's being offered by dealers around the UK so I could compare prices. So far, I haven't found one. In fact I haven't found a modern grand of 5 foot or more from any maker for £3k or anywhere close.

[joe]

Why not have a look at Piano Auction Ltd website and give them a call your are not going to get a good modern grand piano off any dealer for 3k,and would stay clear of Young Chang have plenty of experience of them,try the auction they have quarterly sales of modern Boston,Kawai and Yamaha grands and some German makers from time to time,well worth a look.

[joseph]

I believe young chang pianos CAN be nice, but I've yet to find the nice one..... They have pretty poor tone, really quite hard on the ear, and the actions are terrible - very heavy, unresponsive and even when set up properly they still perform poorly.

The new ones are meant to be much better, but even the concert grand isn't in the same league as others that are out there.

[classic-keyboard]

OK, I'm getting the message. Young Chang pianos are all bad. Nobody in their right mind would accept one at any price. They're an offence to the noble art of piano making.

Maybe that's why this example is scratched. Maybe a piano tech got so fed up with trying to make it play right he did a Basil Fawlty and started beating it with a dead branch.

[joe]

You have come on to a public forum for opinions and to get an idea if value,did you look at the auction site?,you are getting free advice here which is you time and money driving around dealers looking for the eternal bargain,best of luck, your money spend as you please and seek advice elsewhere

[classic-keyboard]

Joe,

I'm very sorry if my comments have rubbed you up the wrong way. I appreciate all the posts and what I've read has - as I indicated - made me think twice about this piano (and about Young Changs in general). Thus the forum has been a valuable help, although it's always humbling to discover one was wrong about something.

I did look at the auction site you referred to, and thank you for the heads-up. If I'm still looking for a piano when their next auction catalogue is published I'll look at it again. This would presumably be a better option than eBay or whatever - but still not as good as buying from a well-known dealer with no extra commission to pay, free delivery, tuning and a warranty.

[joe]

Not at all,depends on the dealer who supplies you use,an informative website with good rankings not always the grail.If you buy at auction the Sale of Goods Act also applies,a 20 year old Yamaha G1 for £3900 plus commissions and transport and a tuners say 2 days prep set you back just over 5k that's what I be looking at,here to please and set a tease,what would that cost in a showroom.

[classic-keyboard]

a 20 year old Yamaha G1 for £3900 plus commissions and transport and a tuners say 2 days prep set you back just over 5k that's what I be looking at,what would that cost in a showroom.

Exactly £6,000 including prep, delivery, stool, warranty and first tuning apparently: http://www.besbrodepianos.co.uk/piano-s ... gany-1.htm

But I don't have £6,000 - or £5,000 - unfortunately...

[joseph]

We're just trying to steer you away from a piano that, in the long run, wouldn't be up to much. You'd need to spend a fair bit of money on it making it comfortable to play, and even then, it would never be that great. As I said, I believe there have been improvements in the young chang line up since then, the very latest models are meant to be OK, but you'd be better to try to find a decent upright for the same price. You could get a decent Yamaha U1 for that price I'm sure of it.

[classic-keyboard]

By way of an update for anyone who cares: as previously mentioned, your comments persuaded me not to bother looking at the Young Chang. Yesterday, I went to another dealer, with a wide range of used grands, on a fact-finding trip to narrow my choices. Inevitably, I ended up falling in love with a particular piano, and inevitably I had to accommodate some serious budget expansion. I wrote a silly little checklist for myself:

(1) TOUCH. Do I like the way it feels to play it? Is it precise, even and do I like the weight? Do I want to keep on playing it instead of moving on to the next piano?
(2) TONE. Do I like the way it sounds? Is the bass nice and clear? How bright is the treble? Is it harsh or sweet? (Check the piano is in a good state of tune)
(3) SIZE. Is it going to fit in my sitting room?
(4) LOOKS. Do I like the colour? Is the finish perfect? If not, is it good enough to live with? Is it clean and smart inside?
(5) PAST LIFE. Has it apparently had a good life and not been beaten to death or neglected?
(6) VALUE. Is this instrument good value, taking into account the whole package offered and my level of trust in the dealer/seller?
(7) PRICE. Is the total cost within my budget? Or at least within my means?
(8) BRAND CONFIDENCE. Have I heard of this piano? Do I know anybody with something like this? Have I read/seen/heard good things about this piano?
(9) RESIDUAL. If I had to sell it suddenly in the short term, will I get at least some of my money back?
(10) LONGEVITY. Will it need major work done on it in the short to medium term? If so, can I afford it? Will I still want it in 10 years? Will my son want it in 25 years?

Amongst others, I played Kawai RX3 and KG-2C. I played an assortment of 'old darlings' by Schiedmayer, Weber, Neimeyer and so forth. I also played a few high-end uprights just for completeness. But my whole scientific analysis crashed and burned when I sat down in front of... a Yamaha C3. It's the nicest piano I've ever played. I mean to have it - but I'll be living on baked beans forever because of it. It ticked every box (except 7), though. And what an action. It was like the proverbial flippin' Swiss watch.

[NewAge]

Sure, some of us are still interested in your piano quest.
However, why you say a buyer's hand-written check-list should be silly, I just can't figure. Anyone in their right mind should have such a check-list imho, especially if auditioning a number of different pianos.
It also appears that you have set your mind on a grand piano, and nothing less. I set off on this track some time ago, and after about a year of trying a multitude of different makes and models, it became obvious that there were a number of good upright pianos that beat the pants of many smaller grands. Only last month I played on a 30+year Welmar upright piano that had been well cared for, which gave far more pleasure than a new Chinese 155 grand.
I'd have to agree that the Yamaha C3 has certainly passed the test of time, and is an excellent piano - as is the RX3. I see there is a C3 for sale on the quick link listings on this site. How does the one you played compare with that price-wise?
Whatever you are eventually tempted to purchase, don't do so without prior inspection by a piano tech, who is not affiliated with the seller. Piano forums abound with buyers who have gone with their gut-feeling for a used piano, and regretted it. Forewarned is forearmed!

[classic-keyboard]

Well you're right - I do have my heart set on another grand. I will admit though that, when I played the uprights, I was astonished by a used Yamaha U3 - I really hadn't realised uprights could be that nice. If my 'grand' scheme really falls through a good used U3 might be my second choice, perhaps with a factory silent option...

I'm going to have to be coy about the price of this C3, at least for the moment, because I'm trying to do a deal with the dealer at the moment if you see what I mean. I can say that the RX3 was quite a bit more and beyond even my mortgage-the-kids limit.

You're right of course about independent inspection; if we come to terms on price I should find a tech that's local to the dealer and get a quote for him/her to check the thing over.

[classic-keyboard]

Since I'm no longer talking about Young Chang, I'm gonna move to a new thread...http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... =3&t=10958