Erard piano

[yiddo66]

Hi!

I have had in my possesion for quite a while now an old Erard upright piano, I am looking to sell it but need more information on how to find out more about it, where to find the serial number etc.. All I know or think I know about it is I believe it was made in France by the father and that his sons came and made piano's later in England, it has a metal frame if that makes any difference and the previous owner had it valued by someone in France in about 1999 for quite a pretty sum, however I would like to know also if there was any way of finding out about its history which I think would be very interesting.

Thanks Glenn

[Bill Kibby]

If you lift the top of the piano, you can probably see numbers straight away. Otherwise, remove the top front panel, which is probably held by simple clips at the top corners. I don't know if this is a Paris or London piano, I suspect Paris. With an old piano like this, the major issue is the tightness or otherwise of the tuning pins, and nobody can guess the value without tuning it, because re-pinning might cost more than the piano is worth. Original Paris archive information is probably available through me, but there is a search fee.

[Phiphi]

If you give more informations about the piano, like number of keys, height, stringing (straight or overstrung), it may be possible to identify the Type. The most common seems to be the Type 8. However, it also depends on the year, and the serial number would be helpful. A photograph (or more) would be helpful too.

Where do you live ? I've never had an opportunity to play an Erard upright. If you're not far from North London, could I have a go ? Otherwise, the gentleman who sold me his Type 0 misses it terribly. He had to move to a smaller place, and couldn't keep it. He may be pleased to have an upright.

[Bill Kibby]

I'm impressed! How many models do you know of? There are probably thirty variations on my files, and that's just the antique ones. Stringing was almost always oblique, not straight-strung or overstrung. Compass was often 85 notes.

[Phiphi]

As I said earlier, it depends on the year:

It looks like the manufacturing of vertical string uprights stopped around 1860, when they were replaced by the semi-oblique. The oblique uprights were then produced since a dozen of years. From then, until around 1900, the range was No 6 (semi-oblique), and 3 obliques (Nos 7, 8, and 9). Only the 9 had 88 keys, the others had 85. The production of overstrung uprights started in 1904, in parallel with the No9. It looks that all the uprights were overstrung from 1919.

I didn't work out the frame material yet, although I saw "chassis en fer" mentioned many times.

All this information comes from Rene Beaupain's book, as usual.

[Bill Kibby]

I'll have to put that on my Christmas list!

[Phiphi]

Unfortunately, it's in French.

However, I find this book somehow disappointing. It doesn't give many details on the history, or design, or manufacturing. It's mainly a compilation of information from documents found in museums or private collections, mainly catalogues, and a bit of discussion about the position of Erard in the piano market. I wish the book would be more thorough.

An example: My Type 0 was made in 1912. It is already fitted with a Schwander action. It was common in the 1930's, but nobody knows of an Erard "Schwander-fitted" so early. The action seems original, as there is no sign of "retro-fitting". Also, the action looks identical to a Schwander, but there is no brand name on it. Why this Schwander action ? I cannot find this information in Rene Beaupain's book.

[Bill Kibby]

The problem in being thorough is that no single source has the whole story. Also, the more thorough one is, the more boring it is for people who do not want those tiny details, so editorial decisions have to be made. If you were just looking for Erard information, would you want to buy a book that has twenty thousand other names in it? While some people struggle to find enough to fill a book, I have the opposite problem to solve. Similarly, while many museums have antique pianos with no information attached, we have more information than we can find wall space for. Probably 600 feet of wall!

The Piano History Centre has lots of items that are not available by active research elsewhere, but even the original archives for various makers do not tell us many things, they mainly deal with sale, number, brief description and delivery. There were changes going on in the Herrburger-Schwander firm around the 1914 war, not least of which was the fact that because of loss of family members, Schwander swore he would never supply actions to Germans again. In 1920 the firm merged with Brooks in London to become Herrburger Brooks. However, the tradition of numbering Schwander actions continued for many years. Does yours have a number on the back of the hammer-rail? I notice that you describe it as a Schwander action, then say it does not have a name. Although Erards had made their own actions for a long time, there came a point where everyone was using specialist action makers. Schwander seems the obvious choice.

[Phiphi]

I did not notice any number, certainly because I didn't look for it.

I saw the word "brevete" (patented in French) on the "front rail". I compared with photographs of a 1952 Type 0, and this one has "Schwander" written above "brevete" at the same location. There are small differences, like cast brackets made of bronze or brass on the 1912, and tha same brackets made of aluminium on the 1952, with identical shapes.

It looks that Erard struggled fitting its original actions designed for straight-strung pianos to the overstrung pianos. Perhaps, Erard commissioned actions from Schwander quite early to see if things went better.