Dating a Collard & Collard

Ask questions on piano history and the age of your piano.

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Steven Engel
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Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 15:53

Dating a Collard & Collard

Post by Steven Engel » 07 Aug 2019, 16:34

Hi there!

I would like to determinate the age of my Collard & Collard baby grand, and I would appreciate some help. Under the music desk I found 2 numbers. The number 16144 is casted in the wood. And beneath this number, I found the number 845 (maybe it's a model type?).
I believe 16144 is the serial number, as it is repeated on a different location inside the piano: Casted in the wood above the frame near the lid prop. I couldn't find lists on internet including this 5 digit number. All the numbers I have found are 6 digits, or 5 digits starting with a 9.
There are some online calculators available online. However I doubt their value. Is there someone out there who can help me shine a light on this matter?
Kind regards from The Netherlands,

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Bill Kibby
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Joined: 04 Jun 2003, 19:25
Location: Lincolnshire UK

Re: Dating a Collard & Collard

Post by Bill Kibby » 08 Aug 2019, 10:18

My Numbers page
explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems. It also mentions Collard specifically as one of the worst makes to date, and about a third of the way down the page, there are various estimates of their 5-digit and 6-digit numbers. It is unusual to find the model number below the serial number on a Collard.
If the term "baby grand" is accurate, it suggests something from the 1900s, when it may not have been made by the original firm, but my figures suggest that it was made by them around 1905. Numbers at that time were advancing by about a thousand per year.
Is there any chance you could attach photos to show what the WHOLE piano looks like?
Piano History Centre
Email via my website.
If you find old references or links on this site to, they should refer to

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