Frequencies
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Frequencies
I had my piano tuned a week ago. My piano is only a year old and this is the 3rd tuning. I have a few issues with the piano and I think it might not have been regulated at the shop.
Anyway, aside from double strikes, I have two problem notes, which remain problems through tune ups. E flat 3 sounds harsh. It's odd to explain but it seems to always stand out too much. C sharp 4 always has that out of tune wining noise.
I downloaded cleartune just to make sure these notes were technically in tune. What I noticed were that all the notes were out from 0 by anything up to +20.
Is that right? I'm aware that A4 should be 440 but the electric tuner had it at 445.
Lastly, should people ever try to touch up unisons themselves? There are lots of youtube videos that give us non experts confidence in trying but there are sometimes comments advising people not to try as they will ruin their piano. They never say how people will ruin theie pianos.They also say simply self tuning all notes to 0 won' t always give a good sound or one that a tuner can provide. Again, they don't say why. Many thanks
Re: Frequencies
I experienced the same with my Sauter when it was brand new. The second year I expected it to remain stable after the 2nd tuning that particular year, but it also needed a third before I began to be happy (total 6 tunings in 2 years). What wouldn't have helped is the fact that we have underfloor heating (on from Oct to late March). To assist further I then had a Dampp-Chaser installed, which I've never regretted. (It's thirstier than an Irish navvy during the heating months). Now I still have 2 tunings a year, but one would really be sufficient as I don't play every day, and to my ears always sounds superb.
I found the tuner affiliated to the dealer I purchased from, ok for the 2 'free' in-home tunings, but didn't have a clue when it came to regulation - refused to do anything saying it wasn't required with a new piano for at least 5 years. I knew that to be untrue, even with a high-end piano. That was when I looked around for an excellent tech/tuner, and found one, who performed some minor, albeit necessary 'tweeks'. I seriously suggest you do the same.
As stated in a previous post, your Yamaha B1 needs some tlc. Get someone competent to do it. And at this early stage don't even think about touching up unisons yourself, or of doing any other work, as if things turned sour, the dealer could say you only have yourself to blame, and walk away from any come-back.
Please keep us informed of developements.
Re: Frequencies
Get a competent tech to fix the B1 like it should have been done when you bought it.
Any fool can make a piano-- it needs a tuner to put the music in it
www.lochnesspianos.co.uk
- Colin Nicholson
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Re: Frequencies
Regarding the pitch.... yes, this is perfectly normal for a new piano to drop off the production line, and tuned purposefully sharp - done for a good reason. (Whatever you do, don't try to get it back to A440). When new strings are fitted, they actually can take up to two years to fully settle.... your piano hasn't finished its "settling" yet. Often through negligence/ forgetting or delay to rebook/ the pitch will gradually be dropping as we speak.... eventually, the whole piano will start to drop slightly in pitch. Eventually, the pitch will drop to near A440.
Regarding the pitch of the other notes.... the Cleartune app only shows 'real' pitch (like a guitar tuner) - they are not for tuning pianos except A440 or C523.3Hz only, and not equal temperament scale. When a piano is tuned to ET, except for either A440 or C523.3Hz (the starting note for a tuner), all other notes are purposefully tuned flat very slightly. If every note was tuned to your app (so the green light came on zero), most of the 12 major & minor chords would not sound right, and various intervals between notes would give off what is known as a "wolf" interval (yes, they howl at you!).
If you use the app, they are handy for checking the general stability of the pitch only - and Middle C can be checked by muting 2 of the 3 strings, and the digital read-out should be 261.6 or very near that. Next time, ask you tuner which note they start the tuning with.... A or C?
Colin
Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
Re: Frequencies
Many thanks all.
I've decided after reading this that I won't touch the piano myself. The last post in particular suggests my idea of trying to set them all at 0 is going to make things worse, although I would say a few of my intervals are like harsh screams as it is. My F sharp 3 to middle C, makes me sick.
I'm going to contact another with no relationship to the dealer.
Many thanks
Mike
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Re: Frequencies

Re: Frequencies
Thanks for that info. I'm currently playing Field's nocturne no 10 and there are a few of these intervals from F# to C.
The more I read the more it appears that some of my issues, are not actual issues. It certainly does need the regulation though. I've left a voicemail for a tech to get back to me.
A year on, will he be able to confirm the poor regulation was in situ when I purchased the piano? I don't know whether or not to go through the dealer, incase there much heel dragging and waiting forever.
The problems I've identified are double striking hammers and a bunch of notes in the lower mid range aren't as responsive as the notes in the middle and upper- my finger seems to travel into the keys more before contact. This causes issues with my soft play. If I were to pay for this, how long and how much will it cost?
Very helpful forum
Thanks
Re: Frequencies
You need a tech to put it in order.
Any fool can make a piano-- it needs a tuner to put the music in it
www.lochnesspianos.co.uk
Re: Frequencies
Why does my yamaha serial number not check on any of the check websites.
I was told the piano was new and I was hoping to check that. Would Milton Keynes know?
- Barrie Heaton
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Re: Frequencies
Yamaha UK did publish up to date numbers, However, some retailers had pianos on the shop floor for 2 years or more and still do. So clients were complaining it was not New which is stupid a piano that has been on the shop floor will be well prepared. by the sound of your piano, it's looking like it was shipped direct from the factory to you without anuy prep workPianoMike wrote:Lastly,
Why does my yamaha serial number not check on any of the check websites.
I was told the piano was new and I was hoping to check that. Would Milton Keynes know?
Barrie
Web Master UK Piano Page
Re: Frequencies
I decided to have a go on one particular note that seemed to have a wavering pitch.
My piano tuner had tuned A4 to 443. I used tuner pro app, which after selecting the stretch tuning option, gave me all the note frequencies for A4 at 443. I was astonished how accurate my tuner had been in doing this by his ear, as all of the notes were bang on the right frequency, even the one that sounded wrong.
I messed about with mutes and determined that all the three strings on c sharp 5 were correctly at 558. They only varied in cents - would that really cause the wavering sound?
Maybe I'm looking for a perfection that doesn't exist.
I stupidly decided to try the tuning hammer and quickly realised a technique is required. I wasn't aware that the arm, neck and face would ache as it did. I also didn't realise this would require an element of force. I was sweating.
Anyway, it took me 45 mins to get all 3 strings back to 558 and it now sounds more zingy than it did before.
I won't try this again. I'm baffled as to how tuners get perfection in no time at all.
Re: Frequencies
Any fool can make a piano-- it needs a tuner to put the music in it
www.lochnesspianos.co.uk
Re: Frequencies
Any fool can make a piano-- it needs a tuner to put the music in it
www.lochnesspianos.co.uk
- Colin Nicholson
- Executive Poster
- Posts: 1839
- Joined: 04 Jul 2010, 19:15
- Location: Morpeth, Northumberland
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Re: Frequencies
I noticed you said you tried tuning with a tuning "hammer"? .... is this the T - shaped tool, handle at each end/ steel tipped and a star socket? If so, you are best buying a tuning LEVER ( L shaped).... much less effort required, but still a good technique required to keep the strings in tune.
Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
Re: Frequencies
- Colin Nicholson
- Executive Poster
- Posts: 1839
- Joined: 04 Jul 2010, 19:15
- Location: Morpeth, Northumberland
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Re: Frequencies
My best friend of course is the humble tuning fork C523.3Hz. This is the note I start with, and the octave below (Middle C). My customers can then refer to the pitch visually with the app, but more importantly they can hear the pitch for themselves. To tune with one, strike it on your knee (ouch!) - then put the 'handle' of the fork between your teeth, one hand tuning lever, other hand playing the note.... bit of a circus act!

Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
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Re: Frequencies
....and after 30 years you'll have a corner worn off your front tooth!Colin Nicholson wrote: To tune with one, strike it on your knee (ouch!) - then put the 'handle' of the fork between your teeth


- Barrie Heaton
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Re: Frequencies
Gill the Piano wrote:....and after 30 years you'll have a corner worn off your front tooth!Colin Nicholson wrote: To tune with one, strike it on your knee (ouch!) - then put the 'handle' of the fork between your teeth

I use the chrome fork. but I do have an digital fork as I have some teacher who want me to use there manky fork so I tune the digital one to it as they are never on pitch
Barrie
Web Master UK Piano Page
- Colin Nicholson
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- Posts: 1839
- Joined: 04 Jul 2010, 19:15
- Location: Morpeth, Northumberland
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Re: Frequencies
Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
- Barrie Heaton
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3984
- Joined: 30 May 2003, 20:42
- Location: Lanc's
- Contact:
Re: Frequencies
Colin Nicholson wrote:at college, we used to use about 3 tuning forks between 6 of us.... had to wrap handle in masking tape, so we didn't catch their disease
yuck not good at least we got our own T hammer, Lever, wedge and fork form day one
Barrie
Web Master UK Piano Page