teaching my 5 year old son to play the Piano advice

[StuartAU]

Hi all.. So glad i came across this forum!
We have an upright piano at home. A few keys do need a little tuning but generally it's in a good state!
I have played by ear since school and my son loves to listen and play it himself or us together. He has such a good ear and after watching me for 5 minutes, he can immitate me and gets it pretty close as in rythm and notes!
He can play single finger songs off by heart like twinkle twinkle, jonnie comes marching home again, bugsy malone even the top part (right hand) of Beethovens Fur elise.
I just had a response from a local Tutor whom is asking for £26 a lesson which is way beyond our means.. They offered 30 mins lessons but i cant see him being able to Im not saying they dont deserve it but we just cant afford it even though we both work.
Anyway, what i would like to know is what "Basic skills" can i teach him, i used one guys lesson on here lessons 1&2 with CDEF chords and my son picked it up within 2 hours of playing... I woke up this morning to find him playing it in his P.J's lol
At school, I failed seriously on the reading side of music and really want him to be able to read as a head start in school.
We'd really appreciate Any advice
thanks again for being here!

Stuart

[Descombes]

Hi Stuart
He really sounds exceptional for a 5 year old: picking those tunes out and singing accurately!

I'd suggest carrying on with what you are doing now, but perhaps going together to a local music shop (I'm not sure where you are) and looking for a beginners' piano book which catches his eye. (I think that's important if his interest is going to be kept up.) Since you have some experience, you will be able to guide him through some of it.

I wonder if his school has a Music Co-ordinator. If so perhaps he or she could give some advice and get him involved in as much music as possible.

However, in the long-run, if he is as talented as he sounds, he is going to need a teacher. When I have started children that young, I have found a 20 minute lesson quite long enough, before concentration starts wandering. So perhaps there's a local teacher who would charge a third of their hourly rate. It does need to be a teacher with the experience and interest to teach very young beginners, though. Again, perhaps the school could offer advice on someone suitable.

I hope this is some help. Please keep us all updated.

[StuartAU]

Hi Descombes,
thanks for the response! Im sorry, i think i misled a little, when i say he imitates, i meant he plays back what i play but like in single finger melody but not chords etc His not actually singing though he is pretty good at singing back the notes i play pretty accurately.. I have a few video clips of him which i will upload and add the links here for you to see. I dont think his a prodigy or anything but you know when a kid can play or not and i think he will have "some" talent in music and i just want him to have a better chance than i did.
I have some computer software that teaches piano but its quite advanced for me let alone him.. With regards to his school, they do offer piano tuition but he is 8th in the queue which hasn't gone down in 6 months
which is why i have tried to look at private.. My wife insists i should teach him as i can play a little but she doesn't understand as we do that he needs professional tuition aswell as me watching over him between lessons to push him a bit.
I know im not a good player so dont laugh
but this is him at age 2 3 &4 (please note the crayon on the keys, i found the best way to show what keys to use was colour them then after a while, i rubbed them out and he remembers, he also canplay it on all octaves!

20 months old
http://www.onlinegc.co.uk/vids/ethan2.mov

3
http://www.onlinegc.co.uk/vids/ethan3.mov

4
http://www.onlinegc.co.uk/vids/ethan4.wmv

[Descombes]

Hi Stuart
Honestly, seeing him play at the ages in the clips, he has an unusually high level of musical talent. He's remembering the melody and playing it rhythmically and accurately; but you can also see he's involved with every ounce of his mind and body. (Look at his rhythmic swaying in the clips.)

The great thing about teaching very young children is coming across the ones who show such involvement at a young age like this. I remember one I taught, who was playing a miniature drum set at this sort of age, then went on real drums, then the piano, where once he reached Grade 1 level, he polished off Grades 2 to 5 at the rate of one a term with Distinctions in all of them. Then he got into composing, went to first the Birmingham School of Music on Saturdays, then the Royal Academy of Music and now he's just gone to Cambridge to study Music.

Now I'm not jumping the gun, but this is a similar level of interest and ability at a young age. I hope that some of the other teachers on this forum will have a look and give their views - which might be very different.

I'd be interested to know which part of the country you are in. Why don't you send a message to me privately?

I think the clips I've just seen are very exciting!

(I've just looked at the clips again. It's the last one that I find so impressive!)

[StuartAU]

yes sorry i forgot to add before i uploaded the clips. I'm just north of London in Hertfordshire..
The 1st clip my wife pointed out, he is 20 months old not 2..
The bugsy clip he was just over 4 which was a year ago, he can play more of it now and learning to play the actual chords though his hands are too small lol
thanks for the encouragment.. I really want him to at least have the opportunity to do something i can see he loves doing.. I just wish i could read and teach him but i thought a semi quaver was half a crisp LOL
thanks again for your interest and help

stuart

[PianoAngel]

Lol! I'd never thought of a semi-quaver that way before - my students will love that description!!

My boyfriend and I are both musicians and after watching your videos it's obvious that not only is your wee boy adorably cute but really talented too.

Personally, I think the best bet is to go with the half hour lessons. I teach children from the age of 4 up, which is very young. It takes a completely different approach than for teaching older children and adults. One of the main benefits of the lesson is how the children learn to focus and concentrate. I would never agree to take a child under 6 for an hour lesson for this reason. The lessons have to always remain fun, and if they go on too long this takes away from their excitement and hard-working focus. I'd also agree with Descombes about the 20 minute lesson being long enough, although I tend to give 30 minute lessons instead with a quick chat in the middle about teddies or whatever else is currently important in their wonderful little lives in order to rest and regain their concentration. Quality not quantity!

[joseph]

£26 an hour is a reasonable price but I understand that with everything going up in price, bills are difficult to pay. Try to get a 30 minute lesson, if you get the right teacher then your boy will stick at it.

I have quite a few very young children on my timetable at school and I love teaching them, its so rewarding when they come back full of enthusiasm to show what they have practiced, even when they are getting it wrong, i don't care, just seeing that 'look what I've learned for you' face is worth it!

Get yourself a copy of John Thompsons Easiest Piano Course book 1, and teach him to read music as he learns to read words. It is so easy to work with and you'll have great fun with the little monster pictures.

The most important thing is rhythm - so clapping games, nursery rhymes, all that stuff is important!

[Samick]

For a child with any natural talent and enthusiasm for music, GET A TEACHER NOW!!
I am not just saying this because I teach the Piano, but also as a parent. Trying to teach your own children an instrument never really works that well - I know, I've been there! They will always make the effort to concentrate more with "a stranger", and as they get older, and learn a bit themselves, they never think you could ever have experienced the same problems or difficulties they are currently experiencing.

You also need to get him to start reading music as soon as possible while he still has the interest and enthusiasm, and before the "playing by ear" develops too much and becomes the "easier option" rather than reading notation. As suggested, there are lots of wonderful beginner books on the market, all of which approach the first learning steps in a fun way. Even though you engage a teacher, you can still help him by working through the book with him. I always encourage the parents of young children to sit in on the lesson, so that they can hear what I'm telling the child, and help them practice in between lessons.

At his age, 30mins max will be fine - he really wouldn't be able to concentrate anymore than that, no matter how talented he is. Make sure that you get a teacher that has experience with young children. I've known some teachers who are brilliant musicians and highly qualified, but just can't engage with very young children. The last thing you want is for him to be put off! At this stage, it is encouragement and engagement that is the most important thing needed! Ideally a recommendation is the best way, and don't be afraid to ask for a trial lesson without any obligation.

Good Luck.

[crispin]

I completely agree with the words of Samick and urge you to get a teacher as soon as possible. Keep him on the list at school and maybe he will get to get free lessons some day... but now when he is enthusiastic is the time to get a teacher - especially before any bad habits get ingrained.

I also agree to sitting in on the lessons - I do that here (in France) and afterwards we (my son and I) discuss what the teacher told him and also I try and help him to practice between lessons - even though I do not play myself (however now I am starting to learn).

I add a link to my son playing after one year of lessons (30 minutes a week)... I was kind of proud of his playing - but now I read on this forum that some people are playing the Moonlight sonata in less than one year... so maybe it is not so impressive after all- but include it anyway to finish off a pm discussion with Descombes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSFYC_F2TqE
By the way .. the Magrical was an imposed piece given some weeks before the exam - while the Bach minuet was chosen by the teacher...

But the bottom line is: GET A TEACHER....

[Gill the Piano]

If you took him to a teacher BUT explained the financial position, if he's really gifted the teacher MIGHT give him cheap lessons as it's evident he'd be a pleasure to teach with that level of musical response. Could be worth ringing round, or approaching the school music teacher, as has been said before.

[Descombes]

Thanks for posting that Crispin. I've sent another PM. I agree that he's a talented lad.

I'm also glad that so many people have confirmed what I thought about Stuart's son. He really needs to have that talent nurtured by an experienced hand! I hope that Stuart will keep us informed of any developments - or more clips!

[StuartAU]

plays like that after 1 year? superb! and thanks for your words on the forum crispin
Thankyoueveryone for your kind words and i will be re-contacting the school to badger them into increasing the time allowed to teach the kids though its £86 for 3 months which is better than the £124 for private tuition..
I will keep you informed and also upload some videos of him now
thanks
stuart

[crispin]

I am sorry to hijack these thread a bit but just to add a bit to my previous post ... I was interested in how the teaching is done in the UK - compared to France - where I live. I can only comment on the French system - and what I see in the particular location that I am in...

In France - many local villages/towns have municipal music schools ( these are called 'conservatoires'). It is obligatory to take solfege classes in addition to the individual lesson for the instrument. These classes focus on theory, rhythm, singing etc and last 1 1/2 hours a week. There is an exam each year - if you fail you have to redo the year. I believe that I am safe in saying that most children do not like these classes but I, as a parent, can see the benefit in the solid and deep background of music that the children acquire. In our particular conservatoire - they ask for 1 year solfege before they consider teaching the child - I believe this deselects the faint of heart... one has to be determined!

Regarding the individual piano lessons: 1/2 hour for the 1st cycle (4 or 5 years) seems the norm... fortunately the teacher we found is excellent - really excellent. Not only a excellent player of the piano but very good with children. One thing she does is insist on performing in public. At the time of your lesson - you knock and enter even though the previous student may not have finished - so one always hears the end of the previous lesson and one has to play for 5 minutes or so in front of the next student. There is a public recital for the parents and whoever before Christmas - the year starts in September - so some students have only had 3 months of lessons.. but they will have to play a duet or something ... there is another recital in April - usually with clarinets where piano + clarinet play together - and the end of year test/exam in June (also open to whoever wants to listen). For me - I hope that some day in the future my son will choose to play chamber music (at the amateur level) with friends ... thus I find this insistence on playing in public and playing with other instruments really good.

As far as the lessons themselves go: I find it great that at a young age they are taught not to look at the hands - just look at the music - to sing the notes - to sit properly, to articulate the fingers properly - to be musical (coming back to singing the music). My son is lucky in that he has no problem with rhythm, syncopation. While playing, he can also listen and respond to the other person playing another instrument... and in my view is lucky that he has these things taught well to him at a young age.

The link to the clip I posted was three years ago - at the age of 7 ... this particular exam he had to learn an imposed piece plus a piece of his choice ... there were 4 or 5 examiners ... and of course the anxious and proud parents. This year - his fourth year he will take his cycle 1 exams - this includes playing the piano (an imposed and a piece of choice) plus an exam in chamber music - where he will play with a young girl playing an viola (They will play this minuet by Boccherini). (He passed his cycle 1 solfege last year...)

In my opinion - these conservatoires in France take the teaching of music somewhat seriously - it is not for everyone (and thus there is a healthy private teaching market). For those who can stomach it - I think it is excellent. Personally I believe (well I like to believe) that the parent can play an important role in encouraging the child - and I certainly enjoy the achievements of my son as much as he does.

My excuses to StuartAU for the hijack - I will now return the thread to him - but I would be happy if someone can fill me in on details on how the piano is taught in the UK ... and I again encourage StuartAU to get a teacher for his son - the rewards of good teaching are so much at this age. I hope that you show some of these responses concerning the importance of professional teaching to your wife

[PianoBear]

Love the discussions here, and so many thoughtful responses to teaching issues. Yes, the talented lad really must have an experienced piano teacher. This makes a huge difference in getting kids off to a great start in piano. I've been teaching piano in Tallahassee, Florida for 20 years and still enjoy my young students. I love guiding parents of young children through the piano lesson process in a loving way - parents need support too. One way I have done this is by writing articles that address the most common issues parents have. These can be found at www.pianoarticles.com This is a direct link - you don't have to sign up for a newsletter to get them, but can if you like them and want more articles.

With kindest regards,

Cynthia Marie VanLandingham
author of
Piano Bears Musical Storybooks
www.PianoBears.com

[StuartAU]

Hi, well i have printed off a score showing 3 octaves of notes with the line to the key..


I have shown him the Every Good Boy Deserves Football and F.A.C.E which seemed to help me a lot at school!

I have got some software called Rocket piano jayde musica pro that shows notes on scores and ytou have to move the mouse and click on the relevent note to a metranome thats after getting 5 right, starts to speed up slowly giving you a final score.

I have spoken with my mother whom also believes he should have pro tuition and she is willing to pay a little towards it so it looks good!
Also, im getting my piano tuned next Friday!

[StuartAU]

ok just to update.. Ethan has his first 30 min lesson tomorrow. My mum offered to pay ½ towards it
Will let yo know how it goes.

[Descombes]

Stuart
That is really good news. I'm sure Ethan is looking forward to it. I've just sent you a Private Message.

[crispin]

Dear Stuart

This is excellent... I encourage you to sit in the lesson if the teacher does not have a problem with that. I still sit in on the lessons of my son - and she treats me as if I am not there : ie completely focussed on teaching my son... and this works well. However I guess that both parties (the teacher and student) have to be content with this - but for us it works well.

Keep us informed so we can all share this exciting moment.

[StuartAU]

Hi Guys/Gals

Sorry havent been around for a while.. i did check back a while ago and the site seemed down..
Anyway, an update..
After 5 or 6 lessons, it came aparent to me that Ethan wasnt really learning as quick as myself or the teacher liked and both felt he was just a little too young. He was pickign it up but his attention span was non existant .. therefore, i completed the remainder of his lessons and have been going since. I have my 1 grading in March
hardest thing i find is learning scales by memory though feel it will come to me. Ill upload some footage of the songs we have chosen i:e A2B3C3 etc i know im definitely playing African Dance, Early one morning. The other one is tough, the minutte that took me a few weeks to get..
All going good and very much enjoying. Ethan will start lessons beginning of next year and will start earlier through cheaper schooling option for now.
Must charge my Vid camera up and record those songs so you can let me know what you think. Dont forget i started lessons last November and couldnt read a note! i thought a quaver was a crisp LOL

[Gill the Piano]

Excellent news, Stuart; my sister did the same thing when my niece lost interest in the piano, and ended up taking grade 4. She's still going great guns too.
I'm sure Ethan will settle to lessons when he's a little older; most teachers I know prefer to start them nearer the age of seven because of the fruit-fly attention span!

[markymark]

...most teachers I know prefer to start them nearer the age of seven because of the fruit-fly attention span!

This is why most countries in the EU don't start their kids at school until 7 years of age. The two sides of a child's brain do not connect to eachother fully until that age. Unfortunately it happens faster in girls than boys on the whole which accounts for "male underachievement" in the sense that boys lag behind girls academically from their early years until their teens.

[Gill the Piano]

I never knew that!

[StuartAU]

Im 34 and still cant use both hands lol
Mozart wrote at 5 years old! maybe he was actually a girl!
lol

[Gill the Piano]

That'll get the musicologists going...!

[StuartAU]

with a name like wolfgang?
Maybe just maybe MOzart did a walter carlos to wendy carlos thing?
ohhh.. lol
Also Ludwugina vanessa Beethoven!

[Celestite]

Im 34 and still cant use both hands lol
Mozart wrote at 5 years old! maybe he was actually a girl!
lol

It would explain his penchant for wigs and frilly blouses!

[markymark]

That'll get the musicologists going...!

Well... actually it's recognised terminology to describe someone as having a "female" or "male brain". Typical female brains use the left hand side of their brain where creativity operates whereas the typical male brain relies on the right hand side where logic and reasoning are seated.

It is possible for women to have a predominantly male brain and for men to have a predominantly female brain without their sexuality coming into the equation.

[StuartAU]

Ahh so being half ok at playing piano, i have half a female brain!
That would explain my indeciseiveness & occasional moodyness! amongst a few traits
Im not doubting what marks saying is true, but i beg to differ because as a question to you
doesn't driving a car or map reading require a lot of left to right brain coordination..???

LMAO what have we started

[Celestite]

Depends which direction you're going in!

[markymark]

Ahh so being half ok at playing piano, i have half a female brain!
That would explain my indeciseiveness & occasional moodyness! amongst a few traits
Im not doubting what marks saying is true, but i beg to differ because as a question to you
doesn't driving a car or map reading require a lot of left to right brain coordination..???

LMAO what have we started

I'm not saying that we only use one side of our brains because that would be absurd. That would mean that people would be either neurotic, emotional, creative wrecks and the other half of the world would be logical, bland and unfeeling sorts. Of course both sides of the brain come into play but people do have a leaning towards the features, characteristics, interests, personalities... that go with one side of the brain.

[Gill the Piano]

That'll get the musicologists going...!

Well... actually it's recognised terminology to describe someone as having a "female" or "male brain". Typical female brains use the left hand side of their brain where creativity operates whereas the typical male brain relies on the right hand side where logic and reasoning are seated.

It is possible for women to have a predominantly male brain and for men to have a predominantly female brain without their sexuality coming into the equation.

Spoilsport!

[StuartAU]

Well just to go back to the thread subject, i just got back from my lesson and i was told i have my Grade 1 exam on 26th March and already nervous lol

[Celestite]

Good luck. I'm sure your teacher wouldn't have entered you she didn't think you were ready. If you're really lucky your examiner will be a trombonist! If that doesn't work, just remember they were once someone's little girl or boy with a snotty nose!

[StuartAU]

Good luck. I'm sure your teacher wouldn't have entered you she didn't think you were ready. If you're really lucky your examiner will be a trombonist! If that doesn't work, just remember they were once someone's little girl or boy with a snotty nose!

Lol ill think of that! infact, will take them som tissues the examiners name is clement virgo :0

[Celestite]

Well. with a name like that I'm sure you'll find all sort of mental images to keep you smiling!

[markymark]

Spoilsport!

So long as Stuart can stand up to use the bathroom, he's nothing to worry about!

[StuartAU]

Hi Guys/Gals, been a while.
Just an update really but glad i joined as it helped me,
My 10 year old son "Ethan" scraped a distinction in his grade 3 ABRSM with 131 points.
He wants to take a bit of time out doing the Exams and decided to learn (as most kids do) Beethoven's Fur Elise.
Anyway, uploaded it to Youtube here for you http://youtu.be/Gwf7m3kbA1E

Stuart

[Gill the Piano]

Excellent; he's still cracking on then! Furry Knees is grade 4ish, isn't it?

[Nutroast]

Furry Knees

I'm probably the only one not to have heard that one before. Lovely!

[StuartAU]

Excellent; he's still cracking on then! Furry Knees is grade 4ish, isn't it?

lol,,, furry knees, its a common song and was on most electrical games back in the day.

His school tutor said it was grade 5 piece about 4 years ago?.
He wants to take time out from doing scales arpeggios etc and just learn a few pieces to maintain his sight reading and playing ability.

Just not sure what piece to learn next

[Gill the Piano]

Colin would know. Or his teacher - or are you teaching him? I can't remember.

[StuartAU]

I started out teaching him but found after 6 months he tended not to listen so much to me as i was his dad lol.
His teacher is pretty good but he shared the 30 min lessons with another child.
managed a grade a year but still 10 is still quite young apparently?

Once he starts senior school he'll start lessons again,

[crispin]

Revival of an old thread: but interesting to see what has happened during the past five years:

Bravo that your son plays from memory ...

I was interested initially just to observe the differences between the French teaching and British teaching system.
The municipal music school in our local town in addition to the teaching of the instrument has:
(a) the teaching of solfege (theory of music, rhythm and singing) for 90 minutes a week for 7 years - this is obligatory
(b) playing of chamber music (each year every pupil performs a duet, trio .. with others).
For me I was in favour of this chamber music for many obvious reasons... but the solfege is completely over the top in my opinion:
except now my son has now formed his own group, he sings, plays guitar and writes the songs ... and suddenly these years of solfege are paying off.

So I really encourage you to continue somehow or other with a good teacher: I am not sure how many scales he has to play but it can not be worse than the solfege my son went through... keep encouraging your son... there are many beautiful grade 3 pieces to play...

for example: Schumann - Von fremden Landern und Menschen (from Kinderszenen Op.15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4vbGMOw8o