grade exams -- what's the point
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano
grade exams -- what's the point
In music everyone seems obsessed with grade exams -- even adults who are just playing for pleasure. Why is this? Aside from making money for the ABRSM and keeping musicians in work setting and marking the exams (important I know) -- what's the point?
Sally
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point

Some competitive parents make the poor little s*ds take the exams 'because I wish I'd learned the piano'. (That makes me cross; you want to play the piano, YOU learn it, don't make littleTarquin live your life for you). Then they get wind of the fact that grades mean points mean prizes - at least when it comes to university applications...more parental pressure.
Adults put themselves under exam pressure - some thrive on it, some shrivel. Up to them!
I'm not a teacher,I'm a tuner, so I see it from reluctant pupil/ exasperated, browbeaten teacher/ determined adult beginner/ pushy parent points of view!

Re: grade exams -- what's the point
1 Put on a concert and invite the public - not practical.
2 Enter a Music Competition - something I dislike intensely, unless it's at professional level, and even then I have doubts.
3 Get an expert's opinion - the AB examiner!
(Does anyone else share my dislike of Music Competitions? I have never entered my own pupils, but recently I have done a lot of accompanying of young instrumentalists at these jamborees. The pressures on the entrants, the awful competitiveness of pushy parents and the inane comments of the "expert" adjudicators have combined to make me resolve that my next booking, in two weeks' time, will be my last ever!! Before anyone claims that the same could be said of exams, I would say that exams are in private and the entrants are competing against the standard set for that grade, not against each other!!)
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
that really says it all to me. The beautiful music was Schumann Kind Im Einschlummern and I think it would be possible to play all the notes in all the right places and sound horrible. My daughter is autistic and she plays it with an over-rigid rhythm. My friend played it with sympathy and beauty.
thanks for the views on music festivals. I was thinking of entering my daughter in one in order to increase her performance opportunities. Maybe I should think again
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
I played that Schumann piece (which was then called Child falling asleep) for Grade 6 in 1966, (I've just checked!), so I think your friend is being modest in describing it as "only around Grade 3". I agree it's a lovely piece.
Music Festivals suit some people, so don't let me put you off, if you have found a good one and if it suits your daughter. I think the worst ones are the ones that stress that they are Competitions! It's music, not the Olympics.
Concerts given in a school or in front of a teacher's other pupils are great, in my view; they try to show the best of everyone's achievements, without the dreaded winners and losers!
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point

And by the way, I'll always remember my teacher telling me when I was 6 that an examiner might give higher marks to someone who played a few bum notes than to a note-perfect performance. Sensitive interpretation goes a long way...


Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Unfortunately this is a common problem even among current learners and it's mostly the teachers that are to blame for that! Your friend could sort that problem by trying to play outside her set pieces and develop a repertoire.SallyEva wrote:She has Grade 8 piano and says of herself "I could only ever play my exam pieces".
that really says it all to me.
Anyway, back to the thread... Grade exams do not make you a musician - that is where the teacher and the pupil need to work so that the pupil becomes a well-rounded musican. The graded exams will not do that and can lure people into a false sense of security when they get a classification for playing a handful of scales and three set pieces. An exam and examiner can not follow your around and see what you play and practice outside the confines of the exam. So let's be very clear about something - the teacher helps mould the student. The exams partner with standard teaching practice to reflect a benchmark of achievement and are useful in helping develop performance skills and also give a target towards which to work. Problem is, and your friend is a case in point, some teachers use the grade piano exam pieces as a teaching scheme which is never what they were to be used for! This sort of "teaching" is more tutoring or coaching but not quality teaching.
While grade exams, in themselves, are not the making of the musician, they are still authorised and accredited thresholds of achievement which may be useful to slip onto a CV down the line for instance. Speaking from experience, I wouldn't have gotten my last two teaching posts without being able to add Grade X onto my extra qualifications section of the application forms. Right now, I know that's long way away but still something to bear in mind.
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Your question on what is the point of grade exam, raises important issues about the way we, or our children, learn music
Working through grades provides a good grounding in the key competencies of classical music. They provide a frame work for study and a means of assessing and monitoring progress as well as setting clear objectives. They provide an excellent study route for anyone aiming for a career in classical music or even for those who just want to do classical music and share its values. That does however restrict their values to a small section of the population. Classical music despite its high profile is very much a minority interest, most people listening to music on their MP3 players are not listening to classical music.
If the population learning to play the piano is typical of the population at large then only a minority will be interested in classical music. So what of the majority? We either do grades and waste much of our time doing work which is at best irrelevant, or we work in a more or less random fashion with no structure, no benchmarks and no means of objectively assessing our performance. Structure and self assessment is so important in studying anything, that many people will opt for doing pointless exercises for grades and working with a style of music for which they have little attraction. Or in many cases making the same decision on behalf of their children
There are books which do provide structure for non classical music such as the Kenneth Baker series but these all run out at around grade 1 or 2. I suggest that this situation is because of the ABRSM’s virtual monopoly of the market and a customer base that is all to willing to accept a totally out of date product. Grades, with their emphasis on memorisation learning by rote and accepting what is presented without understanding or question, are based on 19th century learning. This in turn may be due to the widely held and totally erroneous view that classical music is somehow superior and less ‘worthy’ than other forms of music.
Trinity Hall does move a little way forward with less emphasis on memorising transpositions of a scale (or scales) more emphasis on understanding rather than just repeating and a wider choice of musical styles. They do however mirror the ABRSM format, presumably because it is familiar to music teachers. The grade system probably works well for those whom it was intended, people on their way to becoming classical musicians, but the failure to provide an appropriate structure for the majority of learners is in my view a major deficiency in music teaching.
PS
Just re-read your second posting- maybe grades are not even very good for their intended purpose, in which case the hole in music teaching is even bigger than I imagined. I think there is a need a new frame work which provides structured learning and objective assessment that is suited to the 21st century and adresses the need of those interested in a range of music types - including classical.
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point

Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Trinity Guildhall for example, has worked hard to make it possible for non-degree holders to study HOW to teach children effectively taking into account long, medium and short-term planning as well as modes of assessment. Huge refurbishment of these courses have taken place in recognition of the way in which private teachers are generally so unprepared to teach. Unless one studies for a PGCE or similar teaching qualification, these basic skills are not developed on batchelors courses, save for the mechanics and theory of music as well as in your chosen voice(s). Being an accomplished musician does not make an effective teacher.Bazzer wrote:I think there is a need a new frame work which provides structured learning and objective assessment that is suited to the 21st century and adresses the need of those interested in a range of music types - including classical.
I can't speak for the other boards, but TG has worked hard to include contemporary pieces in their music selection. While I agree that music needs to be interesting for the child, at which point is a child mature enough to decide which pieces he/she wants to study? The education department has tried the same thing with children deciding their careers at the age of 14. How can children make a quality decision on this point? More mature learners may have leaning towards a particular style but then they have life experience and have had time to develop a real taste in music.
There is research to prove that classical musical compositions from the likes of Mozart for example actually stimulate a child's creativity, irrespective of what they are actually doing. School classrooms are exploiting this to help focus children on an independent task. How much more then would this be relevant to music students? As you'll know, baroque and classical music by their genre have some of the most basic and element melodies and structures when compared with the syncopation and irregularities of contemporary and modernist pieces. Personally, I feel that these music styles are important to developing a child's musical ear.
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
I think there is a need a new frame work which provides structured learning and objective assessment that is suited to the 21st century and adresses the need of those interested in a range of music types - including classical."
No I didn't!
I was saying the opposite. Let's trash the technical requirements and make it all easier and more accessible. Let's change 'examiner' to 'awarding body'. Let's drop musical notation as stuffy and too demanding. Submit your piano exam pieces as 'coursework' via mp3 or MIDI for that authentic 'performance' (after downloading them from the internet). It doesn't seem fair that pianists must play so many notes at the same time, as you can have a grade 8 in oboe with just the one, so lets drop the left hand and use one finger only. Award everyone grade 8, they deserve it.
Dumbing down just creeps up on you. 28% for a C in chemistry GCSE? Drop calculous for GCSE maths (vs O level) and those tricky exams? (actually I appreciated that one

Let's keep the standard where it is and develop different qualifications for those who want them.
(Maybe I'm a bit sensitive about this because it's been a goal for such a long time.)
- Gill, Grade 8 at 12? Even if they are 'parrotting' think what they could do later in life if they develop a real interest in music...
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point
I'm with you on that one; as someone who was thrown out the bottom of the bottom division for maths at school and FORBIDDEN to take O level, i shall be taking Maths A level in 2015 or so, by which time the pass rate'll be 100%...Gooday wrote:
Dumbing down just creeps up on you. 28% for a C in chemistry GCSE? Drop calculous for GCSE maths (vs O level) and those tricky exams? (actually I appreciated that one)
Definitely...but the prevalent mentality of the parents, and often of the kids themselves, is that by Grade 8, they've 'finished' learning...Gooday wrote: - Gill, Grade 8 at 12? Even if they are 'parrotting' think what they could do later in life if they develop a real interest in music...


Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Sorry about that but not my fault! I clicked on "quote" and this is what the forum displayed!Gooday wrote:Re "Gooday wrote:
I think there is a need a new frame work which provides structured learning and objective assessment that is suited to the 21st century and adresses the need of those interested in a range of music types - including classical."
No I didn't!
I was saying the opposite.
I have manually editted the quote but as I said, your name came up beside the quote automatically.
Breathe...
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
The need for a syllabus and assessment is obvious and fine by me. In sport there are progressions and certificates but the coach decides and there is no panoply of exam boards and paid examiners. The mummies like the certificates though and get cross if there isn't a new one at the end of each term.
I was under pressure to put my daughter through grade exams (from my mother who thought, rightly, that outsiders would be impressed by them). At that point I rang up the music colleges and asked if entry was by Grade exams/paper qualifications or audition. As everyone here will know, they said "by audition" as if I was a lunatic. Their point really is confined to impressing Mummy's friends and showing off at "show and tell" in circle time.
Thanks very much people. You have made me feel saner.
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Respectfully, that view was expressed by one other person who is in a minority in that view when put in the context of the other comments on this thread. While we all agree that grade exams are not the making a musician, let's not go to the other extreme and say that they are nothing more than social status symbols. If taht's how they are being used in your area, that is unfortunate, but to say so would be to completely underestimate and undermine others' musical achievements. They'll soon discover as your friend has done, that racing through exams for reasons other than learning will leave them with a repertoire of exam pieces and no ability to play anything else.SallyEva wrote:thank you very much to everyone who responded. I personally think that the exams as musical qualifications are part of our "better-than-you" culture and valued as cultural signs of child hood genius when playing parental one-up-manship, as several people have said.
Their point really is confined to impressing Mummy's friends and showing off at "show and tell" in circle time.
Besides, kids can brag about ten A* at GCSE just as quickly a having obtained grade whatever. How many parents send their kids to private tuition just to get to their choice of secondary school? LOADS! Look at the bigger picture; NO qualification really matters save for getting you to a hurdle but in the right context, testifies to your competence not your social standing or personal worth! As you mention, ALL universities will look at exam results, A-levels, GCSEs, etc. but will also use the audition to back up and inform their current perception of you. Ironically, a music degree does not always indicate a high musical ability either! Theory and write-ups can easily cover over weaknesses in your practical musicianship!
This is why, in my job, although we may advertise for some one to have at least Grade VI in an instrument, we will also ask them to demo as part of the interview which is composed of the performance of both a prepared and unseen piece as evident of their competence. Thankfully, the vast majority match up to thier crudentials but you can't always be sure! We could well ask, "What's the point of doing any qualification then?" We know that's unrealistic because some level of learning must have taken place but auditions and trial periods following appointments in any line of work exist because learning without application does not mean accomplishment or maturity.
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Perhaps what she needs is other 12/13/14 year olds to make music with. Then she can work it all out for herself and make music. She will be self-taught -- the traditional way to learn lots of instruments. Maybe a club in school, or a youth club, or even a group of friends.
If she then feels that she needs more technique to make music more like the stuff she hears in her head -- then you can offer her lessons with a "piano teacher". Lots of famous jazz musicians learned in this way.
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
It is obvious in retrospect that music was in me, but the exams provided real focal points, specific aims and achievements. They also provide an objective assessment of one's ability, technically and musically. Whilst having a demanding job and young family my level of playing decreased, but knowing I had achieved Grade 8 was a help in getting back into serious practice again. Most children have to be forcefully persuaded to develop performance skills in music or, say ballet, in the first place. The saddest comment I hear all too often from people who hear me play is "I wish I had carried it on." It is parents and teachers who have the responsibility to encourage children beyond their natural limits of time alllocated to an instrument, so long as they are sensitive to the child who really doesn't want to know. Playing music domestically is a joy, particularly the great music of those cited above plus Brahms, Chopin, Debussy etc etc. It is a shame that so many people could experience that joy, but are left with "I wish....."
Grade exams are an integral part of the path to that joy.
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Re: grade exams -- what's the point
Re: grade exams -- what's the point
As for memorization-- internalizing music is much more important. Memorization is a part of this. But truly, an actor internalizes the script and character they are playing, until it becomes second nature. The musician internalizes the music-- becomes the music. Memorization is one step that can help you do this.
I've written an article about the learning process, particularly about the distinction between learning theoretical ideas in music and internalizing these ideas-- only when they are second nature and you can forget about them is it possible to use them as tools for music-making.
To read more on this subject, please feel free to go to: www.jazzpianoteacherslondon.co.uk and have a look at the pages titled "Learning jazz piano: the process" and "Jazz piano lessons: a fun and creative approach".
All the best!