George Rogers & Son Piano

[owenow]

Hi guys

I've always wanted a old baby grand piano to muck around on and saw this in a second hand shop. I know NOTHING about piano's but was wondering if anyone had advise based on the attached picture.

The piano is a George Rogers & Sons but I couldn't find the "badge" or anything so wondering if anyone could offer any advice. Is it real, what is it worth, etc... anything you can tell me based on the picture would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry I should have taken more photos (and I dont seem to be able to upload more than 1).

Pic1

[Colin Nicholson]

Well.... the piano looks real to me. Rogers is a reputable name - but I'll have to take your word for it, as cant see the name on the fallboard (lid that covers the keys). I would guess - around 1920's/ 1930's. If you remove the large picture, then slide off the music rest completely - you may find a serial number so we can date it.

We cant give valuations here, or what its worth on the forum. It will need to be internally inspected by a piano tuner to check the condition of the tuning pins, and other things. Looks OK.... but thats just the outside!

There seems to be a price tag near the right leg? Is this 5,700 euros? or US dollars? .... cant make out the kind of currency sign.

If you click on 'post reply' - you can add more photos.
However, regardless of how real it looks, name, age.... you need to have it checked over.... especially for that whopping price!!
Also UK prices differ from other countries, and photos cant tell you the condition, how it sounds, what the touch is like, is it in tune? has it been serviced recently? .... I suspect maybe not - and the shop owner may have just claimed it from a house clearance, and knows very little about pianos...... just something to sell to pay next week's rent, and feed the kids.

[NewAge]

It looks like Colin was up in the very early hours of the morning to answer this! As always an excellent reply too.

Yep, that price tag definitely says, 'Grand Piano $5700' which, if American dollars, relates to almost £3600.
If in excellent exterior and interior mechanical condition (this must be confirmed by a good tuner/tech), it could be a reasonable purchase, but if you take the chance and buy without professional inspection, the piano could well cost you a whole lot more to make playable.
This and a lot of similar piano forums are full of buyers remorse tales. Tread carefully!
Good luck.

[owenow]

hi guys

Firstly just wanted to say a bit thank you for the effort in reply. Its been really helpful!

Whilst I can play a piano (just!), I've always wanted an old baby grand piano that has been scuffed up etc a bit. Something with a bit of character etc. Been even better if I could a beer on it whilst I was have a bash.

The piano was found in an antique store in Australia so the price tag is in Aussie dollars. The owner said he would reduce it to $3,700 if I were to buy it. He said it isn't tuned but apparently definitely can be. I am pretty confident he is not a piano person himself as he could not tell me much about it. I think he just picked it up in an auction.

I will pop back and take your advice on seeing if we can date it etc. Completely understand you guys cannot value it on this forum and esp based on pictures. To be honest, as long as it played in tune and worked - that would be good enough for my skills on the piano :)

Let me know if you'd like me to take pictures or ask anything else!

Thanks again guys, its very much appreciated.

O

ps I will upload the other 2 pics I took at the initial viewing, not that it would tell much...

[owenow]

another pic

[Colin Nicholson]

G'day to you....

So.... you like your beer then? !! .... I'll have a Coopers with you!
I went to Oz in 2009 - stayed with family in Alice Springs (NT) , then travelled to Byron Bay (NSW) - loved it!!...... BUT, I managed to do a little bit of piano tuning & repairs while I was there.... this old piano was in a glass engraving shop, and my mate (who I went to college with) - showed me it !! .... AAH ! .... looked fab on the outside, but inside - resembled a badly organised garden shed!

Anyway - back your piano. Looks very nice, and I can see why you may be lured towards it? Dont forget our golden rule though.... pianos are easy to buy (ie in a shop, nice surroundings etc)...... but very very difficult to sell. I would tread carefully. I'm not sure of the exchange rate into UK pounds (used to be about half that in 2009) - so lets say its worth about 2K (UK pound sterling) .... I would expect a fairly decent warranty with that - about 2-3 years.

Your shop owner? .... is this the ONLY piano in the shop? I'm guessing it is...... and never rely on 'apparantly' !! ..(or anything word of mouth) ...... I'm guessing it was bought fairly cheap at auction (maybe through a house clearance) - and to 'keep up' with the image of the shop, and other nice things surrounding it - any piano in there with a bit of spit & polish will simply be whapped right up in price. I am also guessing they dont do removals either?

Can't stop you buying it - but would you buy a car for that much money (and approx. equivalent to over 50-60 years old) without test driving it first? .... or buy it prior to you passing your driving test?

The bass strings are also VERY black & tarnished looking, and anything dated around 80-90 years old is a risk.
See if you can get some more knocked off the price - they clearly dont know the realistic value of old pianos - or try to get the removal fees paid and a free tuning! - they'll probably take your hand off!!

Good luck

[owenow]

Thank you again for all your advice guys. Really appreciated. I popped by the shop to find more info on the piano but could not for the life of me find the "badge". I took more pics, any comments appreciated but as advised, would not do anything unless I had a proper person look at the real thing!

Thanks again!

[owenow]

and another pic

[owenow]

last pic - have more but sure they won't tell anymore then the other one's ive uploaded! Thanks!

[Colin Nicholson]

Many pianos dont have a 'badge' as such - just the name on the fallboard - so its not uncommon. However, on some grands, badges can be in the design of a decal/ transfer on the soundboard, or raised iron lettering & artwork around the capo bar areas (where the strings pass under the cast frame after leaving the tuning pin). Some grand pianos also have patent dates/ exhibition dates etc.... and reputable piano names have a serial number in and around the tuning pin area.

After looking at the 2nd picture - the raised letters 'VM' ? mounted on the apex of the frame is probably the model/ maker name of the cast frame.... but I dont think there is any info about them. Personally, I wouldnt worry about badges, numbers, names etc.... because looking at the treble strings, they are VERY rusty indeed - and it may not tune. Also you may be shelling out for broken strings to come. I would suspect this piano has been kept previously in damp & cold conditions for the strings to be this rusty.... and new strings would set you back about the same cost AGAIN for what you pay for the piano...... so even a tuner pre-inspecting it, may not even attempt to tune this, and wouldn't want to be liable for any broken strings. Obviously the piano is there for a reason - wildly over-priced for its internal condition. If I suspect right, then also the action mechanism inside will need alot of attention. The tuning pins will probably be reasonably tight due to damp, however, once moved into a warmer environment.... thats when the problems start! If I was called out to inspect this - I would just check the pitch, play a few notes, peer into the mechanism from above the strings - and then walk away with my $100 - thank you very much - but no chance would I try and tune it!!

Hope that helps...... personally, leave it well alone, unless considering restoration.

No need to send any more photos ta - the technician would look right THROUGH the piano - much further than you anticipate, not look at it.... if you get me.... like a autoglass chap on a car, when they check glass - they look AT IT...... not through it.

Colin

[owenow]

Thank you for all your time in the advice. I am taking it and leaving it well alone thanks guy, so very much appreciated!

[sanagmi]

I know it's a couple of years later, but I just imported a Rogers and Son 1930s baby grand piano (serial, on the sound box, 43253 and no VM on the frame!) from the UK to the Philippines, where some of the best musicians come from, and am currently replacing the pegboard, treble strings, and some other work, costing me around 1,600 pounds (the piano belonged to my father, who bought it in the 1950s in Northern Ireland. The guys working on it, from one of the top piano firms in the Philippines, are impressed with the basic quality of sound box and mechanisms (and Ivory keys! unheard of nowadays), especially when comparing with Kawai and Yamaha, which they come across most often here, along with the occasional American or European import. Most concert pianos on stage or TV are Yamaha or Kwai.
Before contemplating the work, I looked for alternative pianos, both upright and baby grand, costing up to 3000 pounds, and none had the quality of touch, or alternatively sound, of the Rogers. Hence I went for the repair. The truth is, it's all about money and your ear. What sounds and feels best to you, and do you esteem it's worth paying for.

[sanagmi]

Now that the work has been done, and the piano fully tuned, I can only say that the option of repair was an excellent one, the tone, and touch is really excellent, much better than alternative recon. pianos anywhere close to double the 1800 pounds I finally paid for the work. George Rogers 1930s pianos are not at all bad!

[Gill the Piano]

I've always found them good dependable instruments. And it's a family heirloom too! Glad you're pleased with it - happy playing!