Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

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maxim_tuner
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Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by maxim_tuner » 30 Oct 2011, 12:56

When friction between pin and wood hole is no longer enough to provide the necessary tension of the strings on the classical technology seeks to restore pin’s wood hole or hammers pin of larger diameter, or a conclusion about the impossibility of restoring the piano
Thus, the pin can be, with some approximation, of course, be regarded as a classic bolt. And that can happen with a threaded connection, if the bolt is screwed into the nut, which has much lower strength material? It’s had bad connection and wick friction .
I don’t beats new pins (larger diameter).I am force the turning (old) pin into the seat (wood hole) while gradually screwing it in.
The most productive and durable (oddly enough) was a regular corrugated cardboard, which provides the required quality and the restoration takes place fairly quickly, with virtually no material costs without the risk of "disorder" of neighboring pins, which inevitably arises in the classic "finishing" pin. Depending on the compound, this material allows for multiple settings for a long time operation of the instrument. Currently under my control are dozens of tools, it is recovered by this method and set up another issue with its restored pins should never be, but owing to the overall poor state of the instrument and there are only spinig more and more "foot-cloth" is already on other pins.
Technology disaster recovery pin is quite simple, I have repeatedly led her to various reports and papers for completeness of presentation will allow myself to describe it in this article.

I can suggest a pinblock pin fixation restoring technique that, far from being classic one, is quite effective. I call it a “foot wrap” technique. This technique features its cost effectiveness and way to avoid “distuning” of the adjacent pins, which is always the case when the pin is conventionally hammered in.

First, you should loosen the “distuning” turning pin, so that the coils at the pinblock are slack. Then using a thin but strong screwdriver (bodkin) remove the string end out of the turning pin. Fully unscrew the turning pin with the string kept inserted. If you fail to do so, in some cases it will be difficult to re-tighten the string on the turning pin. Cut a 50 by 20 mm strip out of the compact corrugated cardboard (of 2-3 mm thickness). Insert it in the seat so that the cardboard filled half of the circle. Firmly place this cardboard strip so that it reached the end of a seat. Force the turning pin into the seat while gradually screwing it in. Have this done gradually in 3 or 4 steps, so as to keep the turning pin from heating. Keep screwing the turning pin into its original (“home”) fixing zone in the pinblock. Then, very gently with a small effort put the end of the string into the hole of the turning pin using a screwdriver. Adjusting and fixing the turning pin until it reaches the desired position, hold the coils of the string by a screwdriver so as to avoid their “sprawling”. I advise you, unless you have paired turning pin installed, while tightening both turning pins of the same string to obtain equal pitch level.

View the entire technology disaster recovery chopping can be seen on video footage me at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGk3dS6d ... re=channel

maxim_tuner_bodger demonstrates tightening fixing pin (bass range), in the online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi_8mh-AFYA

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Colin Nicholson
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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by Colin Nicholson » 30 Oct 2011, 13:35

A mind-blowing post here! well done.
Though some of your methods may be slightly unorthodox, I am hopeful that you have managed to make the pin tighter?

One or two suggestions though......

It seems that there is just one loose pin? .... and if you think there is no crack in the wrest plank (pinblock), I would suggest that you firstly just drive the old pin in a little further - using a wrest pin setter tool (see below), and a hammer.

http://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/frameset.html

This tool will hold the pin still while you drive it in a little - however the pitch will drop slightly, but not as much if you were to use a wrest pin punch & hammer.

I'm not sure if using cardboard will be sufficient? If you have to remove the pin, and dont have a slightly larger pin, I would suggest using 2 strips or veneer, or some thick (40 grade) sand paper.

Also I would remove the string & coil altogether while you are 'fettling' the pin, and if you wind the pin in (like a screw) with the cardboard, you may lose alot of friction between the pin, cardboard & wrest plank hole. So with the same pin, veneer either side (string removed to prevent the pin getting scratched and later becoming rusty).... then using a wrest pin punch (not setter), drive the pin in with about 2-3 sharp blows of a hammer. Try not to disturb the pin too much by turning it backwards and forwards.... then attach your string & coil, and wind it up to pitch.... using a minimum amount of revolutions turning the pin.

Your method may be OK (as a temporary fix), but I suspect that by screwing the pin in, you are already damaging the cardboard & losing friction - so in the long run, the pin may become loose again.

Hope that helps.... (probably get boned for helping you here!!) - but I can see you are very passionate about your work, and I don't think you'll be a threat in the UK!!

Best wishes

Colin
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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by Johnkie » 30 Oct 2011, 14:08

Another great post from Max! I've learnt such a great deal from his instructional videos. I've sold my :
tuning levers - now use a socket set
sets of O/S wrestpins - now use cardboard
centre pins - now use oil
papps and rubber wedges - now use a plectrum

Oh ..... and thanks to an erudite trumpeter .... now realise that a bodger is someone to be looked up to.

:? :roll: :wink: :idea: :sad:
Concert Tuner & Technician for 45+ years - North East UK

maxim_tuner
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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by maxim_tuner » 30 Oct 2011, 17:00

Johnkie wrote: tuning levers - now use a socket set
sets of O/S wrestpins - now use cardboard
centre pins - now use oil
papps and rubber wedges - now use a plectrum
I am glad that my video can cause positive emotions among residents Albion! Laughter, as is well known prolong our lives. However, I believe is premature to get rid of all the equipment in bulk. It may be more useful more?

TheMaximillyan

Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by TheMaximillyan » 13 May 2018, 15:25

Colin Nicholson wrote:
30 Oct 2011, 13:35
A mind-blowing post here! well done.
Though some of your methods may be slightly unorthodox, I am hopeful that you have managed to make the pin tighter?

One or two suggestions though......

It seems that there is just one loose pin? .... and if you think there is no crack in the wrest plank (pinblock), I would suggest that you firstly just drive the old pin in a little further - using a wrest pin setter tool (see below), and a hammer.

http://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/frameset.html

This tool will hold the pin still while you drive it in a little - however the pitch will drop slightly, but not as much if you were to use a wrest pin punch & hammer.

I'm not sure if using cardboard will be sufficient? If you have to remove the pin, and dont have a slightly larger pin, I would suggest using 2 strips or veneer, or some thick (40 grade) sand paper.

Also I would remove the string & coil altogether while you are 'fettling' the pin, and if you wind the pin in (like a screw) with the cardboard, you may lose alot of friction between the pin, cardboard & wrest plank hole. So with the same pin, veneer either side (string removed to prevent the pin getting scratched and later becoming rusty).... then using a wrest pin punch (not setter), drive the pin in with about 2-3 sharp blows of a hammer. Try not to disturb the pin too much by turning it backwards and forwards.... then attach your string & coil, and wind it up to pitch.... using a minimum amount of revolutions turning the pin.

Your method may be OK (as a temporary fix), but I suspect that by screwing the pin in, you are already damaging the cardboard & losing friction - so in the long run, the pin may become loose again.

Hope that helps.... (probably get boned for helping you here!!) - but I can see you are very passionate about your work, and I don't think you'll be a threat in the UK!!

Best wishes

Colin
Previously, many piano technicians laughed at Max, who suggested using corrugated cardboard for a lost pin. Kostya professional tuner from the Urals took a video about this material. What has changed now? Kostya made a testimony of the device, it's shows that the pin's friction high occurs 1.5 times.
Russian tuner kindly agreed to do the experiment using a special hammer wrench with a dynamometer.
Before a setting "Max's cardboard fix" the device shows that pin has (clockwise 7.2 against 2.4)
After a setting "Max's cardboard fix" readings from the device where (clockwise: 11,8 against : 6,2)
Next, he takes readings where his method is used, "a fix using insulating electrical cardboard " where before setting it’s:
(clockwise:7.3 against : 2,4 )
After a setting "a fix using insulating electrical cardboard "
(clockwise:15.0 against : 7,8 )

https://youtu.be/UAs23zj7Sb4


Conclusion: in some cases it is possible and necessary to use cardboard, I think

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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by David Pinnegar » 28 Feb 2019, 14:05

I've had tremendous success, less invasively than taking pins out and inserting cardboard or sandpaper shims, is using CA. It's the biggest secret in the trade and most effective. Applied with a near hypodermic size tube one can put it exactly around the pin and fill the hole around it. The CA replaces the function of the cellulose in the wood to what appears to be a very natural and effective process.

I've rescued three or four instruments from the bonfire using the technique. Keep on applying the CA whilst it's still liquid to fill any visible hole.

CA is reversible, and for that reason I use it also on soundboards and on historic wood frame instruments to reconnect the treble of the bridge with the soundboard. Disconnexion there is the principle reason for dull and disappointing treble.

Mention of CA should be made in the FAQ section of this forum regarding Pintite.

CA has to be fresh and very thin.

Best wishes

David P

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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by bricklayer » 11 Mar 2019, 13:03

I'm a new member and I want to post a new topic. FAQs says 'click on "New topic" but where the hell is it? I've searched and searched everywhere and nowhere on this site can I find "New topic". I could only find "Reply to topic" which is what I've done here.

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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by Barrie Heaton » 11 Mar 2019, 17:07

its at the top
Screenshot 2019-03-11 at 16.01.23.png
[attachment=0]
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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by Barrie Heaton » 11 Mar 2019, 17:14

David Pinnegar wrote:
28 Feb 2019, 14:05


Mention of CA should be made in the FAQ section of this forum regarding Pintite.

CA has to be fresh and very thin.

Best wishes

David P
Cyanoacrylate Adhesives are very effective But... I have had pianos made untenable, as the person has got it all over the pins and strings.
You need excellent ventilation, as well as the fumes, are nasty for your lungs.

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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by bricklayer » 11 Mar 2019, 19:23

It's not at the top! All I'm seeing there (in the spot shown in your screen grab) is "post reply".

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Re: Shim the loose tuning piano's pin with cardbord

Post by Barrie Heaton » 11 Mar 2019, 19:49

That is because you are in this thread you need to click the link above Piano Advice

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