More Help Please !

General discussion about piano makes, problems with pianos, or just seeking advice.

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ncaj
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More Help Please !

Post by ncaj » 29 Apr 2011, 20:03

My search for a piano for my daughter to start her grade 7 had taken a break but on starting my search again we have come across a Wendl and Lung 122 which she likes.

I know the new RRP is around £3350 - could someone please give me an idea of what would be a reasonable price to pay for a 3/4 year old one???

Thank you so much for your help with this :)

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by vernon » 29 Apr 2011, 23:00

Nobody can tell you without seeing it( a technician)
Why not look at a new Kawai K15 or Weber Concerto for less than that?
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by joe » 30 Apr 2011, 03:12

ncaj wrote:My search for a piano for my daughter to start her grade 7 had taken a break but on starting my search again we have come across a Wendl and Lung 122 which she likes.

I know the new RRP is around £3350 - could someone please give me an idea of what would be a reasonable price to pay for a 3/4 year old one???

Thank you so much for your help with this :)
If in good condition and well maintained £1000 seems about right,Chinese made would not pay more than that,most musicians have never heard of the maker and is not known enough to be worth anymore.

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MarkGoodwinPianos
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 30 Apr 2011, 07:36

Proceed with caution.
Get a technician to write a thorough report of the piano for you. Pay particular attention to the issue of tuning stability as I've yet to find a Chinese piano that stays in tune as well as a Japanese piano (Yamaha, Kawai). So be careful about that. Otherwise, yes I agree with Joe's approximate valuation. However, if it was offered to me I'd probably offer around £400.
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by ncaj » 30 Apr 2011, 15:49

Thank you all for your help. Will let you know how we get on ! :wink:

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by Kemble King » 30 Apr 2011, 16:45

Wendl and Lung are fantastic value for money pianos. They knock spots of any old scruffy Yamaha or Kawai's. To offer £400 for one secondhand is an insult to any 3 year old piano. I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.

Tuning stability on Wendl's are great. At least they dont have dead bass strings after 5 years like Yams.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by NewAge » 30 Apr 2011, 19:30

Kemble King wrote:Wendl and Lung are fantastic value for money pianos. They knock spots of any old scruffy Yamaha or Kawai's. To offer £400 for one secondhand is an insult to any 3 year old piano. I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.

Tuning stability on Wendl's are great. At least they dont have dead bass strings after 5 years like Yams. Regards
KK
I certainly agree with the above highlighted statements. The long established company of Wendl and Lung went into parnership with the Chinese Ningbo Hailun company in 2003.
And a short while ago the Wendl and Lung 122 was given the coveted Diapason d'or award by a notable classical French music magazine. I was somewhat sceptical when I first read this in 2007, and had to try one myself. And I was generally impressed with this model, as I was with their 178 grand, and especially the 218 - wonderful value for money in my humble opinion.
I was playing the piano in a zoo, when the elephant burst into tears. I said, "Don't you recognize the tune?" He replied, "No, I recognize the ivories!"

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by joe » 30 Apr 2011, 20:12

Kemble King wrote:Wendl and Lung are fantastic value for money pianos. They knock spots of any old scruffy Yamaha or Kawai's. To offer £400 for one secondhand is an insult to any 3 year old piano. I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.

Tuning stability on Wendl's are great. At least they dont have dead bass strings after 5 years like Yams.

Regards

KK
Generally part agree with above comments but your pricing is way out,as you are a retailer invovled in the sale of these pianos would expect no less,the OP should phone the piano consultants at Piano Auctions and that way will get a fair price to what the piano is worth in the open market without any vested interests advice.£1000 is about right in a "private sale" if instrument is in good order.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by vernon » 30 Apr 2011, 20:32

Most of this is subjective twaddle and indicates other-worldly standards to our Western Capitalist version at present.
We all know that no object has a "value."
If I am offered a Schickelgruber piano and I decide to offer £1000 for it then that is what it's worth to me at that moment.
If I am then offered another exactly- the -same model Schickelgruber piano then my offer for that would obviously be lower.It may be that Schickelgrubers sell like hot cakes and then I would still offer close to the £1000 for the next ten but declining with every purchase.
Sooner or later the sale of this model must fall off(supply and demand, according to mad Lady Thatcher et al)so I would now be offering relative peanuts for number eleven.
This isn't advanced economics but everyday common sense as experienced in the white heat of everyday business at the coal face in the front line, to conflate a few semaphores.
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by rgreig » 30 Apr 2011, 20:54

joe wrote:.. your pricing is way out,as you are a retailer invovled in the sale of these pianos would expect no less,the OP should phone the piano consultants at Piano Auctions and that way will get a fair price to what the piano is worth in the open market without any vested interests advice.£1000 is about right in a "private sale" if instrument is in good order.
A quick glance at the pianoactions.co.uk website reveals that lot 65 on 11 September 2008 was a 2005 Wendl and Lung upright with matching stool (in red!!) that went for £880.

Robert

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by vernon » 30 Apr 2011, 21:54

To use a 1950s axiom---so what!

Was it any good?

£800 gives no indication of it's condition.A raving, musically and technically challenged maniac(excuse the cliche) may have paid that for it-- or a qualified technician.

My case is restless
Our mission in life is to tune customers--not pianos.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by joe » 30 Apr 2011, 22:59

vernon wrote:To use a 1950s axiom---so what!

Was it any good?

£800 gives no indication of it's condition.A raving, musically and technically challenged maniac(excuse the cliche) may have paid that for it-- or a qualified technician.

My case is restless
You would have to be "a raving,musically and technically challenged maniac" to buy this brand in the first instance,again using your view the pianist is at Grade 7 how much can the OP afford,are they after a bargain,whats the budget,are they after free advice,£3350 rrp for new one who determinds that price,is it worth that,says who,where it made,how long they being making pianos,whats the history of the maker yes the list is endless,how do you determind value for anything? at the end of it down to what the OP wants to pay.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 30 Apr 2011, 23:10

Kemble King says:
I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.
Dealers can get a brand new one for much less than this can't they? Chinese pianos can be bought brand new for less than £800... and that's from a distributor. I shudder to think how cheap they are if you go direct to the manufacturer. £500-£600?
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 01 May 2011, 06:47

shaftl wrote:I have a piano that was made in Trenton, NJ. Does anyone know the brand it may be?
Spammers are getting more and more discrete.
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by mdw » 01 May 2011, 08:31

MarkGoodwinPianos wrote:Kemble King says:
I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.
Dealers can get a brand new one for much less than this can't they? Chinese pianos can be bought brand new for less than £800... and that's from a distributor. I shudder to think how cheap they are if you go direct to the manufacturer. £500-£600?
I think that figure is in your imagination Mark. Even if it were true any product will be cheaper from the maker than the importer, thats business. You may try to rubbish Chinese pianos as you have saddled your horse to used trad Yams in black. However there is a whole world of people who want something different and regard other piano as having higher value or ticking more of their boxes for the same or less money.

Yamaha whilst good in some areas do have some major problems. For example yesterday I was working on a 28 year old Yam M1J and as KK states poor bass strings, loops to be replaced and as the entire treble hammer centrepins have walked to the left a new set of hammers heads. Plus key tops white , fronts Yellow!! As a tech I think thats bloody apalling on a 28 year old piano. How much does that make the Yam worth 2nd hand? I would probably have made more money on the deal by knocking some cash off the new piano so I didnt have to take the Yam as a PX. Now Ive got to spend loads of time and money making the Yam into a piano I am happy to sell and guarantee.

Moving back to the original posters question as a retailer with a reasonable spread of stock and workshop I think KKs value of £1995 -£2400 retail, tuned, delivered and guaranteed is probably fair.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 01 May 2011, 08:48

Hi MDW,
Cheers for the friendly reply. I appreciate your comments. I agree that everyone is looking for something slightly different. Some folk like to buy new, some prefer reconditioned, some are comfortable with Chinese pianos, others won't touch them with a barge pole. Buying a piano is a balancing act between build quality, brand reputation, manufacture location, age, price and.... did you have a ball whilst playing it?
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by ncaj » 01 May 2011, 12:19

joe wrote:
Kemble King wrote:Wendl and Lung are fantastic value for money pianos. They knock spots of any old scruffy Yamaha or Kawai's. To offer £400 for one secondhand is an insult to any 3 year old piano. I would estimate between £1995 and £2,400 would be a fare price to pay for it.

Tuning stability on Wendl's are great. At least they dont have dead bass strings after 5 years like Yams.

Regards

KK
Generally part agree with above comments but your pricing is way out,as you are a retailer invovled in the sale of these pianos would expect no less,the OP should phone the piano consultants at Piano Auctions and that way will get a fair price to what the piano is worth in the open market without any vested interests advice.£1000 is about right in a "private sale" if instrument is in good order.
I would expect to see it for £1995 to£2,400 at a dealer, but as this is a private sale I would still have to arrange delivery & tuning at extra cost and I wouldn't have the security of a dealer guarantee.

Just out of interest Kemble King, if you sell this make of piano, how much would you pay for it if it came to you ?

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by Kemble King » 01 May 2011, 19:17

We sold an ex-demo Wendl and lung 4 years ago for £1995. the customer is on a buy back promise of £1000 when he leaves next year.

There aren't many pianos out there now that you can buy that are less than £1000.

Mr Goodwin, if you had gone to Frankfurt this year to the Music-Messe you would of course know this. With regard to Chinese manufacture; what's the problem? The Chinese knew how to build a wall? Have you seen Hadrian's wall recently, it's a bit like a clapped out yamaha U1.

Kind regards

Kk
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Kemble Centre of Excellence also dealer for Kawai, Wendl and Lung and Brodmann pianos

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by Kemble King » 01 May 2011, 19:22

Wendls are not cheap pianos to buy. But are a very good product.
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by hammer man » 01 May 2011, 23:14

You would have also seen KK drinking all their beer! :D

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by joe » 03 May 2011, 04:56

Often wondered what a Wendl and Lung was now i no its either a German beer or an Austrian fag :?

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by piano heads » 03 May 2011, 11:47

hammer man wrote:You would have also seen KK drinking all their beer! :D
There was me thinking he liked an iced cold coke. :idea:

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by Kemble King » 03 May 2011, 21:07

Hello James, longtime no speak? How's the taxi business?

Regards

Kk
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Kemble Centre of Excellence also dealer for Kawai, Wendl and Lung and Brodmann pianos

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by piano heads » 04 May 2011, 07:39

Taxi business always booming,other companies sold up and still doing a bit of dabbling in piano tuning,repairs and sales been offered job in the U.S piano related so having some time out.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by Kemble King » 04 May 2011, 10:21

good stuff, not many characters in the trade at the moment!! Good to hear your keeping your hand in also. Where about in the US?

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Gordon
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Re: More Help Please !

Post by piano heads » 04 May 2011, 16:05

Family looking to relocate to South Florida when son completes studies here,trade does lack a few personalities as does this forum,must be the like pulling teeth in the trade at the moment.Hope you and your family/business manage to thrive.

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by ncaj » 13 May 2011, 09:34

Hello all.....

Just thought would let you know how we got on with the 3 year old Wendl & Lung 122......it was a private sale and the piano was on for £3250 ! :shock: New one RRP £3350 !

We tried to negotiate on price but the seller was looking for £2700.....then we would have had to pay for delivery, tuning and with no guarantee......so we declined......and have taken the plunge and bought a brand new Wendl & Lung 122 - hopefully this will see my daughter safely through her grade 7 & 8 !! She really likes this piano.

Thank you all for your help and advice with this - it was much appreciated :D

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Re: More Help Please !

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 13 May 2011, 09:56

Wooho! A happy ending, well done and thanks for updating us
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