Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

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Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by cei477 » 21 Jun 2010, 11:20

Hi

I have been looking at Mark Goodwin's website. Very interesting. In his buyers guide he suggests that U3 pianos made between 1975 - 1985 are the cat's pyjamas. He quotes Larry Fine's book and generally make a very convincing case fo rthe excellence of these instruments. Which is encouraging. I am looking for a piano and do love the U3.

But how good are these older pianos? Does anyone have direct experience of them? How do they compare to a new U3?

My knowledge of the piano world is very very limited but I thought the mnatra was "buy new".
Then again - the price of a new U3!!!!! Ulp!!

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 21 Jun 2010, 17:56

There are some very nice 1975 fully restored Ford Cortina out there but most are in junk yards were they belong.



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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 23 Jun 2010, 08:39

There are many old U3's which are good, some which are worn and souless, and a few exceptional. You take your pick. The new ones are good, will always hold their value and you get a Yamaha warranty. I don't think the age range is correct as each piano is different. Try and buy local for the extra money(if there is) you get better back up service.
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by cei477 » 26 Jun 2010, 01:27

Hi

Thanks

Oh I know this is all "how long is a piece of string" territory but ,,,
well .. I was told recently that Yamaha are not manufacturing the U3 (and U1??)
in Japan anymore and that sent my alarm bells ringing.

I suppose the simplest question/reassurance I am looking for is "money aside
- should I buy a new U3 or look at the secondhand ones in order to get the "Best"

I know I will play the bloody thing until I drop off and I have a daughter who
is keen as mustard. Maybe that helps?

Regards

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 26 Jun 2010, 09:56

Best value for money or best quality? Best value would be a young 1990ish U3x and say you want A++ grade. Best quality will be a new one but you pay more. But remember that is just my opinion, maybe not others but Im sure they will add their comments 8)
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by chrisvenables » 26 Jun 2010, 12:32

cei477 wrote:Hi

I was told recently that Yamaha are not manufacturing the U3 (and U1??)
in Japan anymore and that sent my alarm bells ringing.

Yamaha still make the U1 and U3 in Japan but now only for export.
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 28 Jun 2010, 17:56

Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK

what does a Ba hons got to do with pianos? is it a trade qualification that I havent heard about? I know of City & guilds, pta, imit, N&S dip. What did the London college people get?
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 28 Jun 2010, 21:01

sussexpianos wrote:
Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK

what does a Ba hons got to do with pianos? is it a trade qualification that I havent heard about? I know of City & guilds, pta, imit, N&S dip. What did the London college people get?
That's a bit unkind, there are many retailers out there who have no qualification. At least Mark has a Ba hons in music. OK so some of the comments on his site about the Yamaha B rage are a bit over the top and bordering on misleading. The guy has only been in the trade for a few years so he is still learning. Sadly he has got off on the wrong foot with quite a lot in the trade, he has not worked out that if you kick one of us we all limp.


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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 29 Jun 2010, 16:33

Barrie Heaton wrote:
sussexpianos wrote:
Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK

what does a Ba hons got to do with pianos? is it a trade qualification that I havent heard about? I know of City & guilds, pta, imit, N&S dip. What did the London college people get?
That's a bit unkind, there are many retailers out there who have no qualification. At least Mark has a Ba hons in music. OK so some of the comments on his site about the Yamaha B rage are a bit over the top and bordering on misleading. The guy has only been in the trade for a few years so he is still learning. Sadly he has got off on the wrong foot with quite a lot in the trade, he has not worked out that if you kick one of us we all limp.


Barrie,
I wasn't being unkind (honest) but wondering if London did that qualification? I kinda like the B3, better than some knakered U1's out there!!
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 29 Jun 2010, 20:52

sussexpianos wrote:

I wasn't being unkind (honest) but wondering if London did that qualification? I kinda like the B3, better than some knakered U1's out there!!
:sad: That all academic now as its looking like that the UK will have no colleges to teach tuning. Newark or what ever its called these days is having it's funding pulled for piano tuning.... cut backs :evil: - so its hello to learning from dodgy books and and using an ETD with low batters. :roll:
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 30 Jun 2010, 10:38

Barrie Heaton wrote:
sussexpianos wrote:

I wasn't being unkind (honest) but wondering if London did that qualification? I kinda like the B3, better than some knakered U1's out there!!
:sad: That all academic now as its looking like that the UK will have no colleges to teach tuning. Newark or what ever its called these days is having it's funding pulled for piano tuning.... cut backs :evil: - so its hello to learning from dodgy books and and using an ETD with low batters. :roll:
NO! really?? has John Lord said as much?? no more colleges? I know some of the students were crap but it did bring some good ones into the trade.
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by cei477 » 30 Jun 2010, 16:42

Thanks for all the advice. I seem to have touched a nerve with the reference to Mark Goodwin. It just so happened that his site was the one that google threw up (and his ad appears on this forum). I don't know the guy at all but I think the website is pretty well laid out.

After all the debate I now find myself toying with the prospect of buying a new piano.

I had a look at the uprights on Yamaha's website. Before this I'd thought it was reasonably clear - in the "U" range there is the U1 and the U3 is its big brother. If I were to stay focussed on that (ignoring U2, U5, U7, UX etc ) I would not go far wrong. But Yamaha have (apparently) "SU" and "YUS" variants on the U1 and U3. The promotional flannel that accompanies the pictures does not explain the differences between these models or what the "Y" and "SU" mean.

Anyone know about these models and how the quality varies?

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by sussexpianos » 30 Jun 2010, 17:08

The U1 and U3 are good pianos, but I would also look at the P121. The other models are very good, but the U1 is around £7k to start with!
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 01 Jul 2010, 20:48

cei477 wrote:Thanks for all the advice. I seem to have touched a nerve with the reference to Mark Goodwin. It just so happened that his site was the one that google threw up (and his ad appears on this forum). I don't know the guy at all but I think the website is pretty well laid out.
Not really is more the second hand U1 and U3 that are being sold out-there by a lot of retailers that are just not very good or as good as they say. Mark has sold some nice pianos in the past. My problem is Marks sweeping comment on his website that a second hand U1 is better than a new B3 that is not true for a most of second-hand 1970 to 1980s U1s out there which in the most part is what he sells. There will be exceptions I tuned a wonderful 1971 U3 in a church the other day .

The main advise is if you are buying second hand let a tuner look at it first



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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by chrisvenables » 03 Jul 2010, 11:55

cei477 wrote: But Yamaha have (apparently) "SU" and "YUS" variants on the U1 and U3. The promotional flannel that accompanies the pictures does not explain the differences between these models or what the "Y" and "SU" mean.

Anyone know about these models and how the quality varies?
New YU series have the following advantages over new U series:

Better grade of strings (same as handbuilt SU series)
Better grade of hammers and felt (hammer felt is same as SU series)
The YUS5 is the only YU series upright with Ivorite keytops and wood composite sharps
The soundboard, iron frame and actions are no different though.

In addition to the Ivorite naturals and wood sharps, the SU7 has:

Better grade soundboard (Romanian spruce rather than Sitka spruce, which gives it a much richer bass in particular)
more responsive action
longer keys
6 backposts
agraffes throughout.

The smaller SU118 is based on the old U1 frame, has the Romanian spruce soundboard but not the Ivorite keys, no castors either.
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Lexusuk » 05 Jul 2010, 11:53

Having recently purchased a second hand Yamaha my advice would be to get out there and start playing them. In my opinion you can tell a bad piano within the first minute of playing. I also recommend playing a new one for comparison too! But if you want to be extra sure then buy from a reputable dealer and/or take a tuner with you to inspect the piano first.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Model V » 07 Jul 2010, 22:37

Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK
Charming.

Why would anyone want to buy a piano from someone prepared to slag off a fellow retailer. You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Gordon.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Kemble King » 08 Jul 2010, 12:41

Model V wrote:
Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK
Charming.

Why would anyone want to buy a piano from someone prepared to slag off a fellow retailer. You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Gordon.
Im a piano tuner technician firstly Model V and a retailer is merely a Saturday hobby. I have no loyalty to a "fellow" retailer who brain washes people into buying tired out U1's and U3's out of simply self storage parks in Glasgow. I have been asked by Mr Goodwin in the past to even tune his pianos that he has sold. I have seen a U1 he sold before and noticed that it needed new bass strings on it. He failed to point this out before it was sold. I also did not see any new loop cords fitted to the hammers???

As for calling me nasty? I am only commenting on observations that I have seen.

I am not desperate for work and do not tune tired out old Yamahas.

Model V, would you care to reveal your idendity?

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by piano heads » 08 Jul 2010, 13:03

Seen a used Yamaha U3 also sold by the same retailer he charged £4000 and gave the customer a px on a Samick 118 off £2800 which was 20 years old and was delivered up a very tricky staircase aye was called to tune and inspect it as the client had bought the piano blind and we had sold him the Samick orginally.Found all the same problem mentioned by Gordon,the other piont is that they advertise at prices and cause customers confusion as they cannot fulfill those prices.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by PianoGuy » 09 Jul 2010, 12:17

For what it's worth, I've tuned two supplied by Mr Goodwin, and found both to be as good as he claims in his (IMHO) dreadfully tacky and slightly biased website. I wonder if he has taken a few video tips from our favourite eBayer.

Casework was top-notch, pianos were internally clean and as should be, nicely presented and regulated and at a good price. Both clients (both media personalities to some degree) were highly amused by the offer of some kind of small financial incentive to supply a testimonial though, and I would suggest Mark, that you resist this policy. Both declined.

I'm not directly endorsing Mr G as a dealer, but just saying what I've seen. I still wouldn't buy any piano blind, even from Mr Yamaha himself if ever I met him at a dinner party, but these were certainly some way better than the industry average.

Pee Gee.
PG

The opinion above is purely that of PianoGuy and is simply the opinion of one person ....

If you're buying a piano, try as many as you can and buy the one you like, not a similar one of the same type.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Model V » 09 Jul 2010, 14:01

Kemble King wrote:
Model V wrote:
Kemble King wrote:Ive been looking on Mark Goodwins website!!!!

Well theres your first mistake in a search for a good piano Im affraid.

KK
Charming.

Why would anyone want to buy a piano from someone prepared to slag off a fellow retailer. You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you, Gordon.
Im a piano tuner technician firstly Model V and a retailer is merely a Saturday hobby. I have no loyalty to a "fellow" retailer who brain washes people into buying tired out U1's and U3's out of simply self storage parks in Glasgow. I have been asked by Mr Goodwin in the past to even tune his pianos that he has sold. I have seen a U1 he sold before and noticed that it needed new bass strings on it. He failed to point this out before it was sold. I also did not see any new loop cords fitted to the hammers???

As for calling me nasty? I am only commenting on observations that I have seen.

I am not desperate for work and do not tune tired out old Yamahas.

Model V, would you care to reveal your idendity?

Gordon Bell
Gordon,

No point in revealing my identity. I am not a technician nor a seller of pianos and have no formal connection with the industry.

What I am is a customer. In the last 12 months I have spent more than £30,000 on pianos. That business went to someone who would never privately (to my face), let alone publicly (in an internet forum) slag off a fellow member of the trade. Such behaviour is imho irresponsible and foolish at best and libellous at worst.

I’m delighted to hear you don’t need the money.

MV

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 09 Jul 2010, 17:20

Hello everyone :D
A friend of mine pointed out this topic to me so I thought I'd log on and say hello

I don't really have a great deal to say here other than I do tend to get a very high percentage of thrilled customers and so I'm reassured by that whenever anyone in the trade makes negative comments about me. My customers aren't just happy or content customers, they are bubbling with chuftness at the piano that they've bought. I hope that doesn't come across as a sales pitch, it's just something that is true and I get a lot of satisfaction from that feedback.

I've never pushed a sale in my life. I'm actually a rubbish salesman. I don't close deals, I don't try and make a sale today, I let people walk away, and I'm probably too cheap. But I enjoy the role and I enjoy meeting budding pianists and I enjoy delivering the pianos to their home. It's a privilege to be in this position.

I've witnessed a few other dealers at work and there are some pretty ugly things going on in retail sometimes. It is never cool to diss a fellow trader publically so I'll leave that there and instead I'll just say that I won't stock anything that I wouldn't be chuffed to have in my own living room.

My sister helps me with some admin which helps her because she had to quit work as a teacher to become a Mummy (he's 10 months now and just learnt to walk 2 weeks ago). My Dad helps me with DIY bits and bobs, and does deliveries with me. He gets £50 for half a day and gives the whole lot to a local charity that builds schools from scratch for some of the poorest villages in India. So that's brilliant too. So he's happy with that and I'm happy with that. My Mum does the book keeping, she used to charge me by the hour but then she stopped charging when I had cashflow problems. I'll have to buy her a bungalow in 10 years to make up for it haha :D

I know my website is tacky and a bit rubbish but it's my own work and I enjoyed putting it together. I'd love a nice site like Jacques Samuel or Chris Venables but I'd have to bring someone in to do that so it wouldn't be as much fun and I'd have to spend money on it. In the end it's more important to get the stock quality right than worry too much about a website. The website doesn't help at all once the customer has arrived to see some pianos.

What else can I say....? (I'm in the mood to carry on waffling now)

There are always going to be tensions between traders, that's just normal isn't it? Thereis tension between Apple and Microsoft, between Yamaha and Kawai, between Hondo and Toyota, between local kebab shops, etc etc. It doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong, it's just normal for businesses to be worried and a bit paranoid about what everyone else is doing. Nobody needs to fall out or say unkind things. Just work hard and enjoy your work. That's all I'm doing and it's been a fun 8 years so far. I signed with an agency last year because I came that close to going bump but I just decide to work harder and thankfully I've not had too many more worrying panic attacks since then.

I'm trying to provide honest pianos and an honest service at a non-greedy price. A reconditioned U1 or U3 is a much more honest piano in my opinion than a Chinese piano with a German name :roll: I bought a couple of new Chinese pianos a while back (I won't ever tell anyone the brand because I don't want to upset the supplier) but I struggled to keep them in tune in the showroom so I gave one away for free to a local pub that has a piano night where the oldies sing songs from the 40s and the other one is in the corner of a warehouse under a dust sheet and I've promised to give it to a local jazz club that currently has an old banger of a piano. I couldn't let myself sell those because they aren't honest pianos in my opinion.

So even though I come in for the odd bit of criticism from within the trade (not a lot mind, I hear the odd grumble about once per year on the grapevine) my conscience is clear, I'm very happy with the pianos and I've got a growing list of really really really happy customers.

A recent customer bought me a very posh piece of Lister garden furniture to say thanks to me. They made 3 visits to my shop staying over 1 hour each time, they brought me samples of wedding favours because I mentioned I was getting married later this year. When we delivered the piano we stayed for over 40 minutes after delivery just chatting about life, houses, children, music, weddings etc. A lady in Liverpool actually gave me a big cuddle when we delivered her piano about 2 months ago... and she cried! She made 2 visits to my shop and we ended up more like friends than customer/seller. We still email regularly chatting about her progress on the piano. As a side note, aren't Liverpudlians lovely people? So happy and jolly. It's a shame they get a bad press.

This is turning into a bit of an epic post, sorry, I can't stop once I get going... I have people who have helped me get going. My Uncle Ronnie (now 84) set me off selling his old Bechsteins online for him, then my Dad let me put some pianos in his garage (Bechstein grands that were sent to Poland for the full restoration), then I moved to the corner of a friend's warehouse, then to my uncle's horrid basement, then I got flooded and moved to the back room of a church, then I moved to an 800 sq/ft shop opposite my house and this year I've moved to a tatty old warehouse down the road.

Why am I saying all of this? I don't know. It's just that I love being involved with pianos and I love waffling on about how good the piano trade can be if you can make your customers smile. It's a really nice job compared with what some of my friends have ended up doing; they have some really dull and boring jobs but I get to help people buy a piano!!! How brilliant is that? I love doing it, and the customers love me for doing it. So it's smiles all round.

I wish I could talk more about business and whatnot but in the end, I'm happy to get on with doing my own little thing here in Oldham. I keep my focus on making sure my customers are happy rather than worry about what other dealers might think about me.

If any forum members or technicians get the urge to come and meet me then I'll gladly welcome you to have a nosey at my place and if you arrive hungry I'll take your here for tea www.turksheadpub.com Oh and don't worry, I talk a LOT less than this in real life. I'm a listener not a talker in real life but if you put a keyboard in front of me I can type for hours.

Well done Barrie for running a great forum. I'm chuffed that it's still going strong and that you are so committed to the cause. The UK piano trade is miles better off because of the brilliant work you put in.

I'm a bit worried that I've said too much now and that I might get picked on (I'm a sensitive soul you) but what the heck, I'll post it anyway. What's that phrase, "there is nothing to fear but fear itself". Any anyway, you're not allowed to upset me too much because I get married in about 9 or 10 weeks. Just getting to the very excited stage now :D

Sorry for waffling
Thanks for listening
All the best
Mark
:piano;
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 09 Jul 2010, 17:24

For what it's worth, I've tuned two supplied by Mr Goodwin
...and I STILL don't know who you are haha!
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Kemble King » 10 Jul 2010, 10:23

PG is god!!
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Model V » 10 Jul 2010, 12:30

Kemble King wrote:PG is god!!
So long as he is not The Stig.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Kemble King » 10 Jul 2010, 13:19

libellous?

You must not have seen Mr Goodwins sponsored links on google advising customers not to buy Yamaha B-Series pianos ( I personally have still not seen a bad brand new Yamaha ). I did not say that I was not needing money, I only said that I was not deperate for work.

With reference back to the original topic of this thread, there are many fine brand new pianos out there manufactured in China that will beat a secondhand Yam on sound and longevity of life also.

KK
Last edited by Kemble King on 10 Jul 2010, 23:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by vernon » 10 Jul 2010, 23:16

While Kemble King would not have a career in the Diplomatice Service surely we are not so pc that an honest opinion cannot be expressed here.
Our mission in life is to tune customers--not pianos.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by d3matt » 03 Jan 2012, 00:17

I've been searching the net for info on Yamaha uprights and there's a surprising lack of information for new buyers, apart from Mark Goodwins site. As someone who doesn't know the first thing about pianos (buying for my daughter), I turned to the net for research and after you wade through the hundreds of seller sites, there's only the odd forum post for 'real' information and then a lot of this has been contradictive.
We've visited a local shop and my daughter tried about 25 pianos and narrowed it down to Yamaha, then narrowed it down to a nearly new B2 or a 1980's U1. Then I hit the net for further info and got completely lost in contradictive opinions and some (what I now know as) untruths.
As it turns out, we've now purchased a restored 1987 U3 which is getting delivered tomorrow.

But there is a lack of information on the internet for beginners choosing a Yamaha upright. So much so, that I've even thought of making a page myself, but I'm not really qualified to do this on this subject. Almost everything I buy, I research on the net and always find the relevant information pretty quickly, but it hasn't been the case this time.

Some of the questions I couldn't easily find answers to were:

- What does grey market pianos mean and what is good & bad?
- Been warned that there are fake Yamahas. How to spot?
- Many say the decade to 1985 are best for U1/U3 models, but then some say "don't buy older than 1985".
- At what age does a Yamaha need restoring and if you find an old one that is in mint condition and obviously hardly been used, does it still need restoring? i.e. what parts deteriorate with age rather than use?
- We've been told that new (or newer) Yamaha U1/U3's have plastic parts in them, making them not as good as an older (restored) model. Is this true? I guess not, but I guess could be true for B series (made in Indonesia)?

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 03 Jan 2012, 10:44

d3matt wrote:Some of the questions I couldn't easily find answers to were:

- What does grey market pianos mean and what is good & bad?
Grey market pianos are in 2 types new and secondhand
New if you buy a piano outside the UK and something goes wrong when still under warranty its very difficult to get it repaired and not pay for it.

On secondhand ones it can be difficult to get original parts plus its the history of the piano it may have spent the last few year in a school
d3matt wrote: - Been warned that there are fake Yamahas. How to spot?
A tuner who you take to look at the piano will tell you. However, in the UK retailers are not going to take that risk as it is illegal and Trading Standards will come down hard

d3matt wrote: - Many say the decade to 1985 are best for U1/U3 models, but then some say "don't buy older than 1985".

That is many retailers trying to sell them of that age, at the end of the day its the state of the piano not its age when you buy second-hand. There is no golden age of any make of piano it how they have been looked after that matters
d3matt wrote: - At what age does a Yamaha need restoring and if you find an old one that is in mint condition and obviously hardly been used, does it still need restoring? i.e. what parts deteriorate with age rather than use?


Again that a use thing, like all products with moving parts the more they are use the sooner they will fail and if they are abused it will be4 quicker
d3matt wrote: - We've been told that new (or newer) Yamaha U1/U3's have plastic parts in them, making them not as good as an older (restored) model. Is this true? I guess not, but I guess could be true for B series (made in Indonesia)?
utter rubbish... for the price the B series are good pianos the B1 and the B2 are the same piano, just a different case the more boxy B2 acts like a boom box and make the bass sound a tad richer in a small room

The best advise is.. it take a tuner with you when you are buying a second-hand piano.

And Yamaha are not the only piano out there

Barrie,
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos » 03 Jan 2012, 14:27

At the end of all the research you could possible do you only really need to conduct 2 tests before buying it:

1. Play it for 30 minutes and make sure you are in love with it. Don't settle for "this will do". Make sure you get one that grips you as you play it. You want to be able to "lose yourself" in the tone and you want the action to be very comfortable and not causing you any frustration at all. Book a fully private viewing session with the retailer so that you are not distracted by other instruments being played at the same time.

2. Have a fully qualified technician inspect the piano and write a full report for you. Then discuss the report with the seller if there are any areas that can be improved. Often the best way to find the best technician is to go with the one who is most busy AND the most expensive. Those 2 things combined are usually a good sign.

In general, stick to a piano that is aimed at professional playing so that you know it will last several generations (even if you buy 2nd hand) and you will never need to upgrade. 120cm or higher is best for getting a good tone. If possible push all the way up to 130cm if you have space.

But anyway.... a huge CONGRATS on your successful purchase of a piano. I'm sure you'll get many years of excellent service (and fun) from it.
Yamaha Pianos for sale (usually 50+ in stock)
email markgoodwinpianos@gmail.com with any Yamaha, Kawai, Bechstein or Steinway questions :)

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by pianonewbie » 06 Jan 2012, 00:46

Hi Mark,
Are you talking of 120 cm wide or height?
Secondly my daughter has never play piano before apart from school and I need to purchase one for her. Somebody suggested a new schaefer which is about £1700, another suggested new mornington and weston which 2195, the secondhand of these are just few hundred pounds difference. Please could somebody advise me if I should go for any of them or which piano that will fit this price bracket that will my children can use up to professional level mark suggested.
What about Elysian studio 108, any good professionally/
My daughter will not know much different as she has not been playing piano before.

Please help with suggestion (1500-2000) price bracket

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by NewAge » 06 Jan 2012, 20:44

pianonewbie wrote:Hi Mark,
Are you talking of 120 cm wide or height?
Secondly my daughter has never play piano before apart from school and I need to purchase one for her. Somebody suggested a new schaefer which is about £1700, another suggested new mornington and weston which 2195, the secondhand of these are just few hundred pounds difference. Please could somebody advise me if I should go for any of them or which piano that will fit this price bracket that will my children can use up to professional level mark suggested.
What about Elysian studio 108, any good professionally/
My daughter will not know much different as she has not been playing piano before.

Please help with suggestion (1500-2000) price bracket
I'll leave Mark to fill in the gaps as you addressed this to him.
In the meantime, generally it's the height (120cms) which is important. If you want a piano up to say professional level, aim for something above 118cm. 122cms or 125 is an excellent compromise, but 130 cms obviously better. The higher the piano, the longer the strings, and hence usually enhanced tone (and volume).
I was playing the piano in a zoo, when the elephant burst into tears. I said, "Don't you recognize the tune?" He replied, "No, I recognize the ivories!"

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 06 Jan 2012, 21:05

NewAge wrote:
pianonewbie wrote:Hi Mark,
Are you talking of 120 cm wide or height?
Secondly my daughter has never play piano before apart from school and I need to purchase one for her. Somebody suggested a new schaefer which is about £1700, another suggested new mornington and weston which 2195, the secondhand of these are just few hundred pounds difference. Please could somebody advise me if I should go for any of them or which piano that will fit this price bracket that will my children can use up to professional level mark suggested.
What about Elysian studio 108, any good professionally/
My daughter will not know much different as she has not been playing piano before.

Please help with suggestion (1500-2000) price bracket
I'll leave Mark to fill in the gaps as you addressed this to him.
In the meantime, generally it's the height (120cms) which is important. If you want a piano up to say professional level, aim for something above 118cm. 122cms or 125 is an excellent compromise, but 130 cms obviously better. The higher the piano, the longer the strings, and hence usually enhanced tone (and volume).
There is one other factor that come with pianos 122 and over longer keys from the front to the balance this give you greater control when playing

As to Mornington and Weston have seen a few new ones 118 size that was a few years ago and for the size the Bass was very good

IMO I would go for a mid rage piano with a vie that you will change it when the little one get to Grade 6- 7 ask your dealer do they have a buy back if you upgrade

Barrie,
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by MWT » 24 Jan 2012, 04:55

There are a number of factors which will determine the quality of a c1975U3.It is very likely to have been originally sold in Japan and exported to Europe in recent years,this is important because the Japanese don't, as a rule, get their pianos regularly serviced.This affects the quality of the instrument.Many of these exported pianos are re-strung and/restored before they reach Europe.The standard of this work can have a dramatic effect on the overall quality of the piano.There has been a huge influx of these instruments into Europe over the last 15yrs.There is a wide variance in quality,hence if buying you should take professional advice first and more importantly try out a variety of examples.In my opinion the c1990-1995 U3 is the best build quality and this is reflected in the sound and performance of the instrument,unfortunately second hand examples are hard to find.

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by pianonewbie » 26 Jan 2012, 00:40

Barrie Heaton wrote:
NewAge wrote:
pianonewbie wrote:Hi Mark,
Are you talking of 120 cm wide or height?
Secondly my daughter has never play piano before apart from school and I need to purchase one for her. Somebody suggested a new schaefer which is about £1700, another suggested new mornington and weston which 2195, the secondhand of these are just few hundred pounds difference. Please could somebody advise me if I should go for any of them or which piano that will fit this price bracket that will my children can use up to professional level mark suggested.
What about Elysian studio 108, any good professionally/
My daughter will not know much different as she has not been playing piano before.

Please help with suggestion (1500-2000) price bracket
I'll leave Mark to fill in the gaps as you addressed this to him.
In the meantime, generally it's the height (120cms) which is important. If you want a piano up to say professional level, aim for something above 118cm. 122cms or 125 is an excellent compromise, but 130 cms obviously better. The higher the piano, the longer the strings, and hence usually enhanced tone (and volume).
There is one other factor that come with pianos 122 and over longer keys from the front to the balance this give you greater control when playing

As to Mornington and Weston have seen a few new ones 118 size that was a few years ago and for the size the Bass was very good

IMO I would go for a mid rage piano with a vie that you will change it when the little one get to Grade 6- 7 ask your dealer do they have a buy back if you upgrade

Barrie,
Barrie Heaton wrote:
NewAge wrote:
pianonewbie wrote:Hi Mark,
Are you talking of 120 cm wide or height?
Secondly my daughter has never play piano before apart from school and I need to purchase one for her. Somebody suggested a new schaefer which is about £1700, another suggested new mornington and weston which 2195, the secondhand of these are just few hundred pounds difference. Please could somebody advise me if I should go for any of them or which piano that will fit this price bracket that will my children can use up to professional level mark suggested.
What about Elysian studio 108, any good professionally/
My daughter will not know much different as she has not been playing piano before.

Please help with suggestion (1500-2000) price bracket
I'll leave Mark to fill in the gaps as you addressed this to him.
In the meantime, generally it's the height (120cms) which is important. If you want a piano up to say professional level, aim for something above 118cm. 122cms or 125 is an excellent compromise, but 130 cms obviously better. The higher the piano, the longer the strings, and hence usually enhanced tone (and volume).
There is one other factor that come with pianos 122 and over longer keys from the front to the balance this give you greater control when playing

As to Mornington and Weston have seen a few new ones 118 size that was a few years ago and for the size the Bass was very good

IMO I would go for a mid rage piano with a vie that you will change it when the little one get to Grade 6- 7 ask your dealer do they have a buy back if you upgrade

Barrie,
Thanks for your response Barrie and other people. I do not know much about Pianos. I found one in a second hand shop Yamaha U3 H2057582. I guessed this is 1975 Japanese manufactured. The price looks reasonable compared to other prices I found on the net for the same model and age but the only difference is that he can only offer 1 year guarantee and there is no free after sale tuning after delivery. There PTA certificate is hanged on the wall of the shop but the guy I met is not the turner.
As it is turner selling this piano, I do not know if I am safe in buying it or not? Please somebody should advise me as I do not want to waste 2 grands
Please kindly advise me about the steps I need to take before buying as I cannot afford 1980s or 1990s models of Yamaha. If I am deceive by the turner who is selling it, is there anyway I could redress if we discover that it is not what he claims. Please advise me

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 27 Jan 2012, 09:06

Hi pianonewbie

The piano has to be fit for purpose even if it is second hand if sold by a retailer as reconditioned. What is fit for purpose well on a piano it should play and tune to concert pitch and hold its tuning for a *reasonable time

The above is with TS you may have some protection with the PTA

But if you are not confidante with the piano or the shop then get an independent tuner to write a report then if the piano is a pup you have 3 places to get back to 2 of them can be taken to court by TS

Barrie

*reasonable time that is the subjective part and can be argued
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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by pianonewbie » 27 Jan 2012, 11:23

Barrie Heaton wrote:Hi pianonewbie

The piano has to be fit for purpose even if it is second hand if sold by a retailer as reconditioned. What is fit for purpose well on a piano it should play and tune to concert pitch and hold its tuning for a *reasonable time

The above is with TS you may have some protection with the PTA

But if you are not confidante with the piano or the shop then get an independent tuner to write a report then if the piano is a pup you have 3 places to get back to 2 of them can be taken to court by TS

Barrie

*reasonable time that is the subjective part and can be argued
Thanks for your advice.
I spoke with the turner, he is not the owner but works for the owner of the piano store. He has inspected the piano and he has informed the owner that they have to change all the 88 loops. The owner has agreed to replace all the loops. I think they will tune it to a concert pitch as well as the seller told me that from the onset but I do not know what other things they have to do or other questions I need to ask them.
Please could you advise me what other information I need to ask them.


What is TS? How do I go about the humidity issue? Does the seller needs to do something about before selling or I have to arrange for that? What is the reasonable time I could request although I have been informed that they do not do after delivery tuning unless I want to pay for them to come to my house after 5 or six weeks. I was informed that after delivery tuning is not necessary because the piano is going to stay downstairs but if am ready to pay for it, they will come over and do it.

Thanks for all your help

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Re: Secondhand Yamaha U3 versus New

Post by Barrie Heaton » 27 Jan 2012, 19:51

Ts Trading Standards

Loops are a common problem with Yamaha's pre 1990s its good that they are replacing them - Tuning pins and Tuby basses or other items you need to ask the tuner about



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