Advice re reconditioned U1 or U3 PLEASE

[pianomum1]

Hi,
Knowing nothing about pianos is making buying a piano for my daughter very stressfull
We have a max budget of £3000 and thought we had decided on a reconditioned U1 or U3 , there is a local dealer who buys grade 1 Yamaha pianos from Japan and reconditions them in his workshop and gives a 5 year guarantee .
Now I have been told that imported second hand pianos are not recommended as worn out and due to changes in humidity and environment do not sound good and new piano of the same budget would be better .
So sorry 2 questions : is this true ?
If false is there much difference in sound quality of a U1 or U3 and is the age or year made important .
I would appreciate any advice and so would my daughter as she has been waiting patiently for her first piano .
Many Thanks
Pianomum1

[joe]

Would stay clear of the imported yamaha market,better to buy used pianos which where orginally supplied by yamaha bona-fide dealers in uk.U1 or U3 both are good sounding pianos when fully prepped,we have a u1 in polished mahogany we sold 7 years ago which looks and sound like new,had very little domestic use can supply serial number to verify age and uk sold.Kawai k3 and k6 pianos are worth looking into as they are sold with 10 year factory warranty.Better to buy proven players in the piano market than "retro chinese brands"new very little residual value and they have still to be test driven for reliability.

[pianomum1]

Hi,
The piano has to be black polished and local to the Midlands.
Thanks
pianomum

[jackg]

This may help:
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/vi ... ht=million

Contact your local tuners and technicians to see if they know of any for sale.
Go slowly and take care.
Sadly pianoguy doe not post here anymore.
If you do buy refurbished secondhand, take an independent tech with you and ask specifically what has been done to "refurbish" the piano.

[chrisvenables]

I agree with a lot of what Joe said, except the point regarding retro Chinese (there are one or two good ones out there).

Second hand imports are usually 30 years old at least, been in a very humid environment, (hot steamy summers) and cold and damp in the winter (until recently in Japan most homes had no central heating in the winter). A piano ages twice as fast in such conditions as one kept in a more comfortable UK living room environment. Many, (but not all) have had heavy use. Why else would the Japanese want to sell them if they were still in good order?

Yamaha operate a 'seasoned for destination' policy, where a piano destined to be sold new in Japan has the wood seasoned to leave a higher moisture content in the wood than one destined to be sold, for example in the UK. Yamaha have 3 seasoning types. 1. Wet - for Japan and the far east, 2. dry - for Europe and 3. super-dry for the US. This is one of the reasons Yamaha have such a good reputation world-wide for reliability. Admittedly, all of the US is not 'super dry', nor is all of Europe 'dry' but this seasoning for destination policy has undoubtedly been a success. So a piano seasoned for a humid country will absorb some more humidity, but not a vast amount as there is a limit to how much moisture in the air the wood will absorb. However, when it is brought into a warm centrally heated home and the wood and felt dries out, all sorts of problems could to occur in addition to the existing rust and tarnishing on the metal components (just read a few other posts regarding humidity issues on pianos in the UK to get more of an idea).

Yamaha have always had a policy of continuous research and development, leading to many improvements. New Yamaha U1 and U3 models (2000 and later) have longer strings than the older models as well as improvements to many of the action components, case parts, bridges and soundboards. Models destined to be sold in Europe are now more 'European' in tone (warmer and more mellow tonally).

To answer question 2 (just in case someone, and there will be someone, who claims the above answer is 'false') : yes the U3 is certainly better than a U1 because of its string length, soundboard area and key length, although for most people the height of a U1 is ample for home use. You can always upgrade at a later date - Yamaha's have, in the past, held their value very well - £3,000 for a 30 year old U3 is proof of that. The age of the piano is obviously a consideration too, definitely the newer the better, assuming the pianos have had the same amount of use. Unfortunately, there's no 'mileometer' on a piano so the layperson would have to trust the dealer, or better still, take an independent technician along to give a private assessment of the piano's condition.

Try out as many new makes and models as you can -new or nearly new is my advice.

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi,
Knowing nothing about pianos is making buying a piano for my daughter very stressfull
We have a max budget of £3000 and thought we had decided on a reconditioned U1 or U3 , there is a local dealer who buys grade 1 Yamaha pianos from Japan and reconditions them in his workshop and gives a 5 year guarantee .

Depends on what they call reconditioned he can just change one tape and legally call it reconditioned However, since they are giving a 5year guarantee so long as they are around that long they will make sure most is done has it been restrung

Now I have been told that imported second hand pianos are not recommended as worn out and due to changes in humidity and environment do not sound good and new piano of the same budget would be better .
Pianomum1

They sometimes come form schools and colleges and do tend to be passed there best but if it has been fully reconditioned then should be fine depending what has be done. above 5mil serial number is a starting point but I don't put too much on that I have seen 4 year old Yamahas that have been played to death an independent tuner to look at the piano is the best £50.00 you will spend


Seasoned for destination Hmm the Americas buy into that big time and yes pre 1970 Yamaha's did tend to fall to pieces when they came to the UK and they did alter their the humidity in the wood to about 4% which what the UK makers have done since ......! Yamaha would have to make 3 versions of each model and which version do you send to north America and which version do you send to the deep south. Kemble don't have that problem noire do S&S or Bluthners who sell their pianos all over the world just as Yamaha do. The big difference is the other makes did not have a problem in the late 90s of cheep secondhand brand named flooding the US market.


Barrie,

[chrisvenables]

Seasoned for destination Hmm the Americas buy into that big time and yes pre 1970 Yamaha's did tend to fall to pieces when they came to the UK and they did alter their the humidity in the wood to about 4% which what the UK makers have done since ......! Yamaha would have to make 3 versions of each model and which version do you send to north America and which version do you send to the deep south. Kemble don't have that problem noire do S&S or Bluthners who sell their pianos all over the world just as Yamaha do. The big difference is the other makes did not have a problem in the late 90s of cheep secondhand brand named flooding the US market.


Barrie,

Wth the advent of central heating and/or air con as standard in most homes nowadays and the awareness people now have regarding the sensitivity of pianos to fluctuations, 'seasoned for destination' and humidity/dryness problems will become less of an issue. However, for people such as pianomum1 considering buying a 30 year old import, it is something to consider.

A piano is built and seasoned so it can take on a certain degree of extra moisture without structural problems (some attention may be needed to the felt though) Obviously, in earlier years before modern adhesives, pianos destined for the far east had to be 'tropicalised, even to the extent of nailing keytops onto the wooden key. However, the greater danger is that excessive drying out of the wood causes shrinkage and splitting. So, you can take a modern dry piano and move it somewhere constantly more humid without too much of a problem, (hence Yamaha's policy of dry for all of North America) but not take a 'wet' piano somewhere dry without humidity control. Fluctuations of humidity, expansion and contraction, obviously have a negative effect on the wood.

Not so much today, because of the climate controlled world we now live in, but in the past Steinway Hamburg pianos were distributed throughout the world, except North America, which was supplied by its New York factory as N Y seasoned drier than Hamburg. So, the world's top two manufacturers did operate a 'seasoned for destination' programme of sorts.

[pianomum1]

Mnay thanks
Re change in climate the piano is guaranteed for 5 years (the dealer is well established ) would any problems be evident in this time ?
Many Thanks
pianomum

[chrisvenables]

After a couple of seasons of exposure to central heating any reactions would probably be evident. Best to ask exactly what the 'guarantee' covers and get a copy of it in writing. Please pay for an independent technician to check the piano out before parting with your money.

[pianomum1]

Hi,
Is a technician and a tuner the same ?
Many Thanks
pianomum

[sussexpianos]

Tuner just tunes. Technician can regulate, repair etc. Tuner technician can do both. Some tuners don't want to repair, just tune.
I have found some of the old Yams to be better than the new ones. Some of my customers agree as one traded a 2 year old one for a 20 year old. At the end of the day, a grey market import will be a good investment provided that it has been well looked after ( not tatty but A+) and comes with a 5 year warranty from a reputable company. I would get a U1 and you should get a late 80's to early 90's in A1 condition for that money. They are reliable, stable and hold their value well.
An alternative would be a new 121 Perzina as they are very nice with Renner hammers and good build quality.