Action regulation

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Nyiregyhazi
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Action regulation

Post by Nyiregyhazi » 14 Jan 2007, 17:13

Any tips on adjusting the action on a old overdamped Bluthner upright? I understand that of the two screws I need to tighten the one at the back and loosen the one at the front, if the back one is already too tight to move. A number of keys have a gap before the hammer starts moving and I need to fix this. My tuner did some adjusting in the middle, the other day and I can feel that the action is much heavier there, but I need to finish doing this on the rest of the piano.

Just wondering about any possible negative effects of tightening it up? Obviously if the hammer starts forward then you've gone too far. Could it make repeated notes more difficult without any obvious signs, though? There's one black note on the piano that doesn't seem to go down as far as the others (only a fraction). Could this be a sign that this one should be taken back a little?.

Also, how the hell do you get a screwdrive in at that angle? Is there any special technique to it?

Andrew

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Post by jackg » 14 Jan 2007, 18:01

Buy "Piano servicing, tuning and rebuilding" by Reblitz. Amazon sell it for £13 ish.
Tis all in there.

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Post by Tom Tuner » 29 Jan 2007, 20:57

I don't think Art Reblitz says anything about regulating rockers. Just be sure not to overtighten the screws as this old wood is brittle and easily broken. Best to loosen the back screw first and gradually tighten the front screw until there is a minimum of lost-motion. As for a screwdriver there is a purpose-made tool for this or an off-set screwdriver works even better.
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8103/rocker screwdriver

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Post by Barrie Heaton » 29 Jan 2007, 22:00

A lot simpler to take each key out and adjust the screws and put it back less damaged screw heads than using an angle screw driver


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Post by Nyiregyhazi » 01 Feb 2007, 02:31

Barrie Heaton wrote:A lot simpler to take each key out and adjust the screws and put it back less damaged screw heads than using an angle screw driver
Wouldn't this make it quite difficult to set the level for each key in turn though? I'd have to keep taking the action in and out to check the levels, surely?

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Post by Nyiregyhazi » 01 Feb 2007, 02:46

"I don't think Art Reblitz says anything about regulating rockers. Just be sure not to overtighten the screws as this old wood is brittle and easily broken. Best to loosen the back screw first and gradually tighten the front screw until there is a minimum of lost-motion. As for a screwdriver there is a purpose-made tool for this or an off-set screwdriver works even better."

Thanks, I found an offset screwdriver on ebay. That should do the trick. Are there any possible negatives of over-adjusting in terms of the 'feel' of the piano? Obviously going so far as to have the hammer beginning forward will reduce the volume, but are there any possible worries before going so far as this?

Andrew

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Post by Tom Tuner » 01 Feb 2007, 19:33

If the hammers do not "follow" the rest rail there is not sufficient lost-motion and the jacks will not reliably return under the jacks, if at all. Otherwise, you only need be concerned about excessive lost-motion, which will ruin the touch and cause "bobbling" hammers which fail to check.

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Post by Barrie Heaton » 01 Feb 2007, 20:34

Nyiregyhazi wrote:
Barrie Heaton wrote:A lot simpler to take each key out and adjust the screws and put it back less damaged screw heads than using an angle screw driver
Wouldn't this make it quite difficult to set the level for each key in turn though? I'd have to keep taking the action in and out to check the levels, surely?

Andrew
No just the keys - that is how we do other types like were you just have a screw covered with box cloth, unless of course yours is a tied action but then you don’t need an angular screw driver just a 8” long one

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Post by Nyiregyhazi » 01 Feb 2007, 23:41

"No just the keys - that is how we do other types like were you just have a screw covered with box cloth, unless of course yours is a tied action but then you don’t need an angular screw driver just a 8” long one"

Sorry, I see now. I haven't taken the keys out before, but I can see how it can be done now.

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Post by Nyiregyhazi » 02 Feb 2007, 02:00

Tom Tuner wrote:If the hammers do not "follow" the rest rail there is not sufficient lost-motion and the jacks will not reliably return under the jacks, if at all. Otherwise, you only need be concerned about excessive lost-motion, which will ruin the touch and cause "bobbling" hammers which fail to check.

Tom Tuner
Thanks for your advice, but could I ask you to put that in simpler terms? I've figured out a few things about the workings from looking inside but I'm afraid I'm quite a severe layman when it comes to the terms. I'm familiar with the term 'lost motion' (when the key initially moves without affecting the hammer, yeah?), but I didn't really get much of the rest. Do you mean there should be a little bit of lost motion?
:oops:

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Post by Barrie Heaton » 02 Feb 2007, 09:04

The hammer blow should be 47mm (the distance for the string to the hammers) when the hammer is at rest on the hammer rest rail. The head of the jack should touch the notch, (knuckle USA) but not raise the hammer off the hammer rest rail

For some terminology see

http://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/flash/ ... ction.html
use your mouse you will need flash installed

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Action Regulation

Post by Frink1234 » 01 Mar 2007, 04:08

I hope you don't think I am "hijacking" this post, but because the topic is Action Regulation I thought it appropriate. I was going to try and regulate my action but first I want it done professionally ( it is really bad) and then I'll keep it fine tuned. One tech told me he takes the action back to his workshop to regulate the other says he does not do bench regulation and feels this is not the right way to do it. Any thoughts, comments?

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Post by hammer man » 02 Mar 2007, 12:43

Hi

If the screws are too tight and will not move, I would put a soldering iron on each one for a short while and this should free them. Take care not to go too mad with the heat, and if you have the time I would file the burrs off of each screw as well to enable a better grip with the screwdriver.
I am a little concerned with your last posting, that a technician said that an upright action could be regulated in the workshop away from the piano.
If he was called Harry Potter and had a large magic wand, thats OK, but otherwise????????????????????????/

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Grand Piano Actiopn Regulation

Post by Frink1234 » 02 Mar 2007, 16:40

Ooops!!! I goofed. :? That's what I get for not starting my own post! The action I am talking about having regulated is on a grand piano not an upright as was mentioned at the start of this post. My mistake. The question still holds. Is there any problem with bench regulating a grand?

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Re: Grand Piano Actiopn Regulation

Post by Barrie Heaton » 02 Mar 2007, 17:46

Frink1234 wrote:Ooops!!! I goofed. :? That's what I get for not starting my own post! The action I am talking about having regulated is on a grand piano not an upright as was mentioned at the start of this post. My mistake. The question still holds. Is there any problem with bench regulating a grand?
You can get it quite close on the bench but you have to finish off in the piano, doing it on the bench takes some of the back pain out of the job

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