Dace piano by Hulbert

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embalmu2
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Dace piano by Hulbert

Post by embalmu2 »

We just purchased a beautiful, small piano at auction and can't find any information on it other than it is 19th century. The case is a beautiful walnut case. It is a small upright and has brass taper candlestands. The area above the keyboard has fabric covered by intricately carved fretwork with a Beethoven medalion. It is very out of tune and some of the keys have poor action. We are hoping to restore it to playing condition but the price was so ridiculously low, we couldn't pass it up even if it is just used as a gorgeous piece of furniture. Any information on this dynamic piece is appreciated. Thanks! Janis
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Re: James Dace, Essex

Post by Bill Kibby »

Having spent almost half a century tuning pianos in Essex, I have worked on many pianos sold by Dace, but I am under the impression that they were only ever retailers. You have told me nothing about the piano that I can really comment on, apart from the fact that the fretwork may suggest a piano made before 1890. Is it possible that you could either post photos here, or email them to me? The company can still be contacted at

http://www.jamesdace.co.uk/aspbite/page ... ge=Contact

but when I have asked in the past, they said they had no archive material.
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MarkGoodwinPianos
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by MarkGoodwinPianos »

Old pianos that sell cheaply at auction which suffer from keys not working properly are USUALLY not worth spending any money on. Can you upload any photos here showing the inside of the piano?
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Colin Nicholson
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Colin Nicholson »

You may have ended up in a "vicious circle" here. Ideally, before you think about spending any money on it, it should be attempted to be tuned first by a piano tuner; however in order for it to be tuned successfully (it tuneable), all mechanism parts need to be working properly. Sounds like it could be damp here? .... have a look inside (take the front cover off), and look for signs of damp/ mould/ furry things! If so.... then a biggish job if re-pinning needed, and your "ridiculously low price" will soon escalate; but it could be sticking keys if you're lucky.
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embalmu2
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

Thanks for your help with this. I am posting pics. We know that often pianos at auction end up costing far more than they are actually worth to restore to playing condition. This one was 50 bucks plus 100 to deliver, so if nothing else, it is a beautiful piece of historic furniture for my entry way in my home. We do now know that about 5 hammers are actually broken so I don't know if this is going to be able to be repaired as we are in the US and there are probably not a lot of these piano parts laying about. The piano is being delivered on Wednesday, so I will have more information at that time. I do have a serial number: 2334 Thanks! Janis
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Bill Kibby »

This is a history forum, value is not always about money, and people who write to me for help are welcome. Serial numbers are not useful without the real makers' name, I am guessing Dace put his name onto it when it was sold. The only hope is that the real maker's name might be hidden inside. If you read the top item on this forum, you will see that cottage pianos like this with pierced fretwork had more-or-less disappeared by the 1880s. There are elements of that fret pattern in various pianos around that time, but it is amazing to me that I never seem to find two exactly the same, although they must have been mass-produced, so I can't immediatley identify the maker. My estimate of the date would be 1877 but have a look at my datemarks page in "Gen about pianos" at pianogen.org

I can quote for compiling a full researched report from photos, but I would need plenty of interior views above and below keyboard level.

There appears to be other writing, near the name, and immediately above the keys, can you tell us what is says?
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

I can't see from zooming in on the picture what this says. After the piano is in my home, I will do more searching and post more pics after Wednesday. I appreciate your expertise in this matter as I am pretty clueless!
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Bill Kibby »

Richard Hickman kindly told me that "James Dace started in Chelmsford in 1852 and then opened up several other shops up and down the railway line. They gradually disappeared until in the 1930s only Colchester and Chelmsford still existed. The Daces then sold out, the Colchester shop went and the Chelmsford shop passed to a Mr.Bush and my father who ran it as a partnership until Mr.Bush died in 1964 when it passed to my family as now!"
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

The piano was delivered today. The name inside the piano is "J. Hulbert" and the writing just above the keyboard is Patent Grichord Improved. There are 7 hammers which are broken off and we have 4 of them.
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J. Hulbert

Post by Bill Kibby »

That will be "Patent Trichord" meaning 3 strings per note in the treble, something that was becoming more standard in the 1870s. Hulbert & Sons were established in 1863, but the firm was probably just James Hulbert in the beginning. I can't recall any examples of their pianos, but they would probably have been typical London cottage pianos at that time. There was also a later firm called Hulbert & Jones that overlapped with them, but I don't know if there was a family connection.
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

We took a good look at the piano tonight and didn't find any cracks in the soundboard. 7 hammers are broken off, but we found all of them! I don't know if someone can reattach those or not. The piece is gorgeous!
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Showing Missing Hammers (Which we have!)
Showing Missing Hammers (Which we have!)
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

Looks great in our entry!
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Bill Kibby »

If the break is in the shank (dowel) and a hammer fits in place easily, wood glue may be the simple answer. I would also stick a small paper bandage around it to add strength. The more thorough job is very risky in such an old piece of wood, drilling it out to fit a new shank. Not only that, the type of action in your piano may make it very difficult to remove individual hammers to do this.
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by embalmu2 »

Hi Bill--Yes, the breaks are in the shanks. I appreciate your advice on this. We got the name of someone in St. Louis who repairs and tunes antique pianos, so we will find out if it is worth repairing or not. If nothing else, it is a great looking piece as the case itself has very limited issues. Thank you for your help and advice! Janis
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Colin Nicholson »

didn't find any cracks in the soundboard.

I think that you may be referring to the 'wrest plank' when you were looking? This is the section of pale wood at the top of the piano where the tuning pins (and strings wrapped around them) are punched into the wood??. The soundboard is behind the mechanism & strings - and sometimes small cracks in them dont make a huge difference to the general sound of the piano. However cracks do not always appear on the surface you are looking it on wrest planks,,,, they can also be hidden 'behind' the wrest plank (cant usually see this section).... and this can only be detected by a tuner actually trying to tune it..... then they will deliver the news. Hopefully it is still tuneable. A piano of this age & condition may also be very 'frail' ,,,, and more hammers may break when you start to play it. 7 hammers shanks are no problem to a piano guy, but if the wood is very brittle & dry, there may be problems ahead.

Good luck with that.... but a nice piece of furniture nonetheless.
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Re: James Dace London & Essex

Post by Bill Kibby »

See the recent post about Hulbert.
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