Metzler London

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metzler308
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Metzler London

Post by metzler308 »

Hello

I purchased a Metzler upright piano last year ,for a ridiculously small amount of money.
I don't play the piano but I'd love to learn and especially would like my six year old daughter to learn.
The piano is in need of a lot of work and tlc but being on a low wage and neither of us being able to play I thought it would be fine to get started with.
Its made of an oak veneer and has three panels on the upper front board and one panel on the lower front board with pretty carved legs. The keys seem rather badly made and worn and it needs tuning and possible some repairs inside and the piano is definitely not worth any money however to me its beautiful. It did have a broken key however with a little thought I fixed it.
During an hour of boredom recently I decided to research the piano and see if i could find out any information regarding the manufacturer of the piano and possibly gain an insight into its age, etc.
Ive read through various forums etc and now feel I know a lot more about pianos than i did and I was inspired to have a little look inside which was surprisingly easier than I thought. Initially I wanted to try and find dates, serial no's or any markings of any kind but their was limited information which i dont think is of any help but I was wondering if any one else may understand the markings.
If you open the Fallboard there is a logo on the piano which looks like it may of once been gold in colour. It simply states "Metzler" however inside the piano behind the upper front board there is a metal plate inside stating "Metzler London"
Ive gained some information about Metzler....

"piano makers (active 1833 - 1931)
Metzler & Co. was a firm of London-based piano makers. The company was founded in 1788 by Valentin Metzler, and became known as Metzler & Son in 1816 when his son George Richard joined the firm. In 1833 the company name changed to Metzler & Co., presumably on Valentin's death. The company was taken over on George Richard's death in 1867 by his son George Thomas. Metzler & Co. exhibited a piano at the Great Exhibition in 1851. The firm became a limited company in 1893, and was taken over by J. B. Cramer & Co. in 1931.
Cramer were later on taken over by Kemble and co in 1964 "

Does this mean that my piano was made pre 1931 or would Cramer and co have continued manufacturing and selling metzler pianos???

The only no's i can find on the piano are "308" which was located on the back of the bottom sill and also on the bottom edge of the bottom sil. It is printed on, not hand written.
The only other no's were on the first two keys and they had been stamped (ingraved kind of stamp) into the wood on the top surface (both no's looked like 9809 although the first 9 was hard to read)
As far as i an tell these no's don't really tell us anything. Does any one know other wise as I would be very interested in my pianos history.

I could of course attach photos if required but I'm unable to take any right now due to poor lighting.
Thank you
Jil
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Bill Kibby
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Re: Metzler London

Post by Bill Kibby »

A picture paints a thousand words, and all your words don't really tell us anything about the piano itself. Metzler & Co. was taken over by Cramer in 1931, and it is thought that this was the point when the name on the piano became simply "Metzler".

Have a look for clues at
http://pianohistory.info/edwardian.html


If you want to search inside the piano for clues, see
http://pianohistory.info/datemarks.html
Piano History Centre
http://pianohistory.info
Email via my website.
If you find old references or links on this site to pianogen.org, they should refer to pianohistory.info
metzler308
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Re: Metzler London

Post by metzler308 »

above keys - fallboard
above keys - fallboard
piano
piano
top of 1st two keys 9809
top of 1st two keys 9809
pitcher or jug on metal frame
pitcher or jug on metal frame
308 bottom of bottom sill
308 bottom of bottom sill
Hi Bill,

Thank you for reply.
I've taken the piano completely to bits and can only find the information I have previously provided however after looking at the first link you sent me, it seems to imply the piano was roughly 1930's.

I have enclosed some photos although the quality is terrible as I've just discovered my camera is broken and I've had to use my phone.

Thank you
Jil
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Bill Kibby
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Re: Metzler London

Post by Bill Kibby »

I take it you had no luck with the datemarks page?

The jug or pitcher mark on the frame is familiar, but we don't know which foundry it represents. I would say this looks like a twenties piano, perhaps around 1925. Key numbers are not usually helpful, and 308 is not long enough to be a serial number, although it may well be the last 3 digits of the real serial number. However, we can't guarantee that the whole number would help!
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metzler308
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Re: Metzler London

Post by metzler308 »

I think I've got it. Not sure how i didn't notice it earlier (think due to poor lighting) but there it was right under the top lid. "26892" etched into frame.
serial no?
serial no?
I've also just removed every key looking for clues and there are some pencil marks under the keys on the joins however they aren't very readable.
a D can be made out
a D can be made out
a 9?   2 and 8
a 9? 2 and 8
Any help?
Thank you
Jil
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Bill Kibby
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Re: Metzler London

Post by Bill Kibby »

I have very few definite dates for Metzler serial numbers, and they don't seem to run in any order at all.

Circa 1895? #16,043

1903 #22,600 Metzler & Co. Ltd.

1914 #16,000

Circa 1925? #26892 Metzler upright.

After 1920 #65,033 Metzler baby grand
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metzler308
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Re: Metzler London

Post by metzler308 »

Hello Bill,

Thats ok, thank you.

I certainly know a lot more than I did a week ago and I'm happy in the knowledge that my piano is roughly 1920's possibly 1925/ 1928? I know in piano terms my piano had basically "had it" but I'm quite happy in the knowledge that my piano is nearly a century old, has a long history and has had a long and happy life with lots of owners who have hopefully played it and enjoyed it.

My daughter and I are having lessons and are extreme beginners so it suits our needs perfectly.

Thank you for all your help Bill, much appreciated

Jil
tonoir
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Re: Metzler London

Post by tonoir »

Bill, similar to these previous messages I have a Metzler upright piano in a walnut looking wood.

'Metzler & Co Berlin' in a brass inset plate on the underneath of the lid. 'Meztler & Co Ltd, 42 Great Marlborough Street' above the stand. 24194 as a serial number on the inside of the piano. All shown the attached pics.

Any idea of original date of manufacture and any other thoughts as to history etc please would be much appreciated ...

Many thanks
Tony H
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Bill Kibby
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Re: Metzler London

Post by Bill Kibby »

It may be from around 1922, but it would help me if I could see photos that show the whole piano, all the way down to the floor, unobscured by dogs, stools, vases etc., so that I can make a more informed estimate of its age.

Sadly, it is still true that Metzler pianos cannot be dated accurately by their numbers. If you want to search inside the piano for a date, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

By the 1880s, Metzler & Co. were selling a variety of makes of piano from their Great Marlborough Street premises, but we have found no evidence of a factory. To quote my Names page
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html

"In the early 1900s, the Belgian crest and motto “L’union fait la force” was associated with “The Cramer Agencies”, which (as well as Cramer) included such old names as Brinsmead, Dale Forty, Dussek, Cavendish, George Russell, Metzler, Saville, and Justin Browne. The making of Cramer pianos, in turn, was later taken over by Kemble, a little-known name to the public until modern times, while Saville’s retail firm adopted the Cramer name. "

There seems to be no significance in the reference to Berlin and, unfortunately, Metzler pianos do not conform to Cramer numbers. Oddly, Cramers also sold Metzler pianos from their own showrooms, so we find
1) Metzler selling Metzler pianos.
2) Metzler selling other makes.
3) Cramer selling Metzler pianos.
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tonoir
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Re: Metzler London

Post by tonoir »

thanks so much Bill - hopefully these additional attached pics will give you more detail to pin down the history better

bests
Tony
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Bill Kibby
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Re: Metzler London

Post by Bill Kibby »

Seeing it more clearly, I would say this was made around 1903, so have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html
Piano History Centre
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If you find old references or links on this site to pianogen.org, they should refer to pianohistory.info
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