Kirkman Upright Piano

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 11 Aug 2003, 07:25

I am looking at buying an antique Kirkman upright piano. Are these rare? It is from the 1880's or so. It says on the front Kirkman London Patent Trichord Improved. Can anyone tell me anything about this before I buy it.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 11 Aug 2003, 18:52

I have a car which says "Ford" on the front, can you tell me anything about it? I would need a lot more information, to tell you anything useful, but they are far from rare or valuable in the UK, although I don't know where you are. Value depends on condition, which must be assessed by a technician on the spot.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 11 Aug 2003, 19:25

I have a car which says "Ford" on the front, can you tell me anything about it?

You use to be able to buy them in any colour so long it was black

Barrie,

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 11 Aug 2003, 20:37

I can tell you this much. The cabinet itself is like a golden burrell wood, very beautiful. The front is all carved with felt behind the piece that is carved. I am not able to find the serial number but until last night did not know where to look. I guess you can usually find them behind the bass key??? This piano needs some work. There are a couple of ivories missing and two of the keys don't work because that thing that hits the strings are gone....like that....I don't know what it is called. It needs to be restrung. I am willing to restore this but I was just wondering if a VERY beautiful Kirkman piano from the late 1800's is on the rare side. I am in the United States. This piano was shipped over for a very prominent business man way back then from Kirkman brand new. Does this help any? By the way I have a Cadillac and you CAN tell the difference!!!!! LOL Thanks so much for your quick reply any more help would be much appreciated. P.S. I am only paying $100.00 US dollars for the piano.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 11 Aug 2003, 22:13

At the end of the day all you will have is a pretty box with strings in. it is far to old to recondition as a working piano - you will still have an 100 year old soundboard and by the sound of it a sticker action with velum hinges.

As a collectors piece maybe However, that needs some one who is good at restoring old pianos and keeping as much of the original piano as possible
there are quite a few in the UK but not so many in the US and you are looking at a shed full of money more than the cost of a new one if done right

if you are still interested I can give you some address state side who will point you in the right direction.

Barrie,

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 12 Aug 2003, 01:12

Hi again, I found out more today. I got the serial number, it was mfg in 1851. It is stamped on the inside with Kirkman & Sons 3 Soho Square London with something like APuTZ. The owner now was told it would take about $500.00 to get it in working order. It really is beautiful. How come you don't think to highly of it. Are there very many of these still in existence? There is quite the history of the Kirkman that I have found on the internet. It really is beautiful even as just a conversation piece but it does play. I just found the age style and history fascinating.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 12 Aug 2003, 09:21

Many tuners don't like antique pianos becuase of all the technical problems and limitations. Being a piano historian, I am very keen to prevent these old instruments ending up on the scrap heap, although americans tend to have more respect for age. If it was here, I would try to find s way of getting it working and tuneable without destroying the authenticity. You need to find someone over there who will do the same. My opinion is that a beautiful antique piano is a snip at $100, but it will never be a good instrument by modern standards. Barrie is also wrong to assume that it has a sticker action, although that is possible. I tuned an 1895 sticker the other day, it works perfectly, better than it did in 1946, and with gentle playing, it will continue to do so for some time. Kirkman was at 3 Soho Square from at least 1831 to 1892, so it could be a very early instrument, but serial numbers as early as 1851 are not normally correct, although Kirkman showed instruments at the Great Exhibition. See "Numbers" at

http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/price ... story.html

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 12 Aug 2003, 09:38

It is not that I don't think highly of it. Kirkman make some fine pianos. I have just seen too many old pianos butchered by tuners who don't know what they
are getting in to and clients who think that when it is restored it will sound and play like a new piano - one day the piano will be worth quite a lot but only if it is treated right - some photos of the inside would be nice to see.

Barrie,

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 12 Aug 2003, 16:15

Thanks so much for all of your help. I am getting it for sure, partially because it is so beautiful, and partially because I DO want to restore it as best I can. I will find someone who knows what they are doing and go from there. I played when I was younger but am no concert pianist so it does not have to be perfect. Just throw out some tune...LOL I am sooo excited about it, it's almost like it is a living thing with all the information I have been getting. I will definetely take some pictures and email you guys. What about sheet music from the same era? There is tons of it, should I grab that too!

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 12 Aug 2003, 16:25

Forgot about this part. I found a website that talks all about Kirkman, even has a picture of the original building at Soho. I found a website also that allows you to enter the serial number and it gives you a date range. I'll keep you posted and send the pictures but I am sure it is going to end up being from my guess is 1860-1870, this I am figuring by the other items at this home that were shipped from London also.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 13 Aug 2003, 09:34

Do remember the advice at
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano ... mbers.html
and don't rely totally on serial numbers for dates: The early numbers published for Kirkman are not correct, whoever tells you otherwise, so I would be interested to hear if you find that yours is right, especially being the year of the Great Exhibition. I can also supply a booklet on Kirkman for &12 at
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/price ... story.html

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 13 Aug 2003, 15:36

Upon reading the last reply, I was confused by the "I can supply the book for & 12. Now I get it...that is 12 pounds. I was laughing at myself. I am very interested in the book. I will take those pictures and find out more as soon as we pick it up. My hubby's dentist butchered him yesterday so we did not get it yet. It is just down the street so she will be coming home tonight. I'll send the pics! Thanks for all your help. Oh I almost forgot my biggest question. What is the Great Exhibition? Could you tell me more about it?

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 13 Aug 2003, 18:52

The Great Exhibition, 1851, was the first of the major International Exhibitions, and led to a whole succession of such events worldwide, where piano makers competed for medals and awards, status symbols which they then illustrated on their pianos. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano ... tions.html

Geminoz · Post by **Geminoz** » 24 Jul 2004, 12:46

Hi Lisa

I can understand your excitement and your view that it is almost like a living thing. That is how I feel about my rather battered Brinsmead and Sons upright. When I bought it I don't think it had seen a drop of polish or a tuner for years. but with some TLC it is coming along nicely....and with it, my increased joy of discovering how to play again. I am not having the scratches etc taken out as I feel as though it is a little like some of us....wrinkles that have been gained through life...and even they are responding to the polish.
Enjoy...enjoy...enjoy...I am excited for you too.

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