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Thanks for that, it is sad, but useful to know.

Thanks, it is interesting to hear of another one, it prompts me to have another go at finding some record of the factory. Is there any chance they could email me photos of it? I don't suppose an overdamper with oblong pins will be anything strikingly original, but it would be interesting to see it.

Yes, I am sorry, it's not my website. The photos you sent confirm what you already said, that is the likely serial number, and suggests 1909. What sort of information are you hoping for? The retailer is shown as W.F.Cole & Sons, Sheffield. They appear on our Sheffield lists from soon after 1899, so ...

The number suggests that it was made in 1901, just before Spencers supplied a piano to the Princess of Wales. Spencer numbers are usually clear and simple to find inside the top, but dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is not always as simple as it seems. Is there any chance you could attac...

I just received an email from a Katie, and I am suspicious of it. It has no subject, no text, so it looks like it might be trouble, and the attachments won't load, so I dumped it. Is it from you? If so, please send again with a subject heading and some text to explain what it is about, otherwise it ...

What sort of history are you hoping for? Nobody can trace the life history of an individual piano once it leaves the factory, but if the manufacturers' archives survive, they may be able to provide you with some original details. How do you know it is 1909? Is it a London Erard or Paris? Can you tel...

I am sorry the software for attachments has become very troublesome, it's not my website.
We can't help with value, the number suggests 1932.

I know that the software for attaching pictures has changed recently, but it is not my website, I am struggling with it myself. That is the serial number but it doesn't help with this maker, there are no dates available for their numbers. This is typical of the many Edwardian pianos (my guess is 190...

I am in Lincolnshire, does that count as North East? James Hulbert was established in 1860, and by 1875 the firm was Hulbert & Sons. Later, there was also Hulbert & Jones. James retired around 1910, but we can't tell you anything about the individual piano just from the name. Are you able to post ph...

See the corrections in the new posting on the Piano History forum.

There is an old posting on this website for the firm, but not entirely correct. The Pierce Piano Atlas lists serial number dates between 1865-1880, wrongly labelled "Guild-Church" & Co., Washington, Massachusetts, at least some of the numbers are wrong, for example #17232 was made after the 1880 pat...

By 1900, the Post Office London Directory lists Green & Savage, Pianoforte Makers, North Road, London N and describes them as "Makers of the Brooklyn Piano". Previously they just used their own name. They were average commercial pianos, by now very old, and likely to suffer problems, especially loos...

I have been approached by a descendant of the Bedwells, who would like to get in touch with you. My contact details should be displayed on the right.

If you open the top of the piano, you should easily see numbers in there, and a serial number would usually have 5 or 6 digits.
For example, # 44,100 is 1927.

Although Stroud is in Gloucestershire and Berlin is in Germany, the phrase "The Pianola Company" suggests the other side of the world, such as Australia! Is that where you are?
If 10690 was a Stroud serial number it would suggest 1920, but the piano looks more like 1902.

It certainly is. I am struggling to find one single reference to "The Pianola Company" being used in those words.

Just because you see a number inside a piano, that doesn't mean it is necessarily THE number, there will be several.
This is much older, looks like Edwardian. There are always experimental ideas which don't necessarily succeed. I can only guess that The Pianola Company sold the piano.

I can see how you ended up with several copies of the photo, I removed them. There is something wrong with the website that wouldn't accept my attachment, but it turned up afterwards! If you search this website for Bentley (made by Stroud) you will find this picture of "The Berlin" model.

Brasteds didn't publish dates of their numbers but I have some on file, they had reached 23,000 by 1915. None of the numbers I have are as low as 1,837 and they were not established until 1873. Dating a piano purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems, and most pianos have mor...

I can't say I have heard of many uses of 4 strings per note, it was tried in Beethoven's time and not found to have any particular advantage. There is a acoustical and mathematical advantage in 3 rather than 2. The reference to "Stroud Berlin" is puzzling, the Stroud Piano Co. was in Stroud, and it ...

If you want to search inside the piano for clues, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html
Otherwise, can you tell me the complete, exact wording on the piano?

The first thing I have to say is that there is no record of the company existing anything like as early as the 1830s. Their first entry in the London directory is 1870: Samuel Brewer & Co., 16, 17 & 18 Castle street, City road EC & 23 Bishopsgate street within EC. In 1875 they were Samuel Brewer & C...

Nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, so your local tuner is the best person to ask. If you open the top, you should be able to see numbers, which may tell us the date. It looks like twenties. 1914 #13,400 Strohmenger & Sons piano has 3.4.14 w...

If you have a look at the other Spencer enquiry I think that will answer your question. They normally have the model number and serial number, found quite easily by opening the top. They were established in 1883, and used about two thousand numbers per year, suggesting that #8571 is around 1887. Hav...

If you have a look at the other Spencer enquiry I think that will answer your question. They normally have the model number and serial number, found quite easily by opening the top. They were established in 1883, and used about two thousand numbers per year, suggesting that #8571 is 1883. Have a loo...

It's difficult to make any useful comment about photos of grands of the 1900s, because they all tend to look very similar, so you will get more value from the assessment of your tuner on the spot. When it comes to the name, "Steinberg" has been used by so any different firms, including STEINBEG, BER...

My Archives page http://www.pianohistory.info/archives.html explains that very few piano makers' archives have survived, and I am not aware of any for Rogers, so the kind of information you are hoping for is simply not available for most pianos. Dating a piano purely on the basis of numbers is often...

Eavestaff numbers can be one of the most baffling, as you can read at http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html #23180 could have been made in 1912 or 1956, but without photos, I can't guess whether either of those is likely. There is also some information about Eavestaff models about three-quarters...

When it comes to Spencer I think it is fair to say I have more of their pianos on file than anyone else, and it is very unusual to have any doubt about Spencer numbers, but this one is much earlier than the published information. Spencer & Co. established their factory at Goodinge Road in 1883, just...

If you email me I may be able to help more.
I can't help wondering whether you are connected with the Little piano firm, or with Billy Little, one of my instructors at college?

Based on the fact that pianos have been around since about 1700, I have described 1939 as "modern"! Kembles have been around since 1911. 1929 may be the year when B Squire & Son became a Limited company, but soon after, they had a factory fire. Kemble may have taken over making them at this point, c...

The number preceded by K is almost certainly a 1939 Kemble number, and in modern times, Squire pianos were made by Kemble. I presume the number is on the soundboard, inside the piano, near to the left (bass) side. Hansons would have been the retailers. Albert Hanson was in Huddersfield, Alfred Hanso...

That number would suggest 1923, but my Numbers page
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html
explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems.

The serial number won't help unless someone has published dates for Steiner's numbers. If you want to search inside the piano for clues, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

There are plenty on Google Images, some are just "Steiner", or... B. Steiner Ed. Steiner Joseph Steiner I don't have any details of the company, but my Names page http://www.pianohistory.info/names.htm explains that many piano names are meaningless. It might be more useful to see what the WHOLE pian...

My Numbers page at pianohistory.info has dates for Langer action numbers which would put this around 1921, but Adam's serial numbers would put it at 1925, and this is more likely to be accurate.

Any relation to historian Lucy? I don't know what "the keyboard comes out" means, or how it makes it louder. Whitfields were known as Whitfields Johnson until at least 1899, so the piano was sold by them in the 1900s, but you have not given me any information that would place it in sequence with the...

Dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as easy at it seems, but this one suggests 1911, and from the pictures, that seems possible, although I would have guessed nearer 1918. It was, of course, made in Broadwoods' London factory, but the only way you might learn more is by contact...

It has been modernised, the plain front and curved columns are not Edwardian. The number seems quite clear - 48722, which suggests 1907. Have a look at http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html Unfortunately, Edwardian pianos are hard to sell at all in England, and fetch very little. Many are untu...

Are you able to post photos here to show us what the piano looks like? Or email to me to post?

It sounds like the 1950s trend towards making upright pianos resemble grands, but only in a very superficial way. Hybrid is perhaps too strong a word for those.

This is one of many names that always seem to be used on modernised British pianos that have lost their original name transfers. The transfers were available for a few pence, and these meaningless names are a joke in the piano workshops. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html

It looks like something from the late twenties, but I can't be precise. You should find a number approaching 40,000. Have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

Could you send photos to show what the whole piano looks like? #19654 suggests 1881 but dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html

There were at least 4 different firms using the name Steinberg, with no definite reliable dates for serial numbers, even if you know which firm made it. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html
for more information. For more information on numbers, see the Numbers page there.

When you are searching it is useful to be aware that some people "translate" the spelling rather than type accents, so Hoelling may be spelt Hohlling, or Holling as you have done. It is probably easier to search for Spangenberg. I am not aware of any published dates for their numbers. If your tuner ...

The number suggests 1902, but these pianos were made in three different countries using three different sets of numbers, and I have no information about German ones.

As far as I am aware, Spaethe is one of many makers whose numbers are not published. If your tuner thinks it is safe to remove the action (the working parts of the notes) it may be marked on the back with the action makers' name and number, and I may be able to date this. If you can post photos here...

RD could be a registered design number, or more likely, if it is R&D it was sold by Rushworth & Dreaper and this would be their stock number. None of which helps, but a photo showing what the whole piano looks like on the outside might help. Is there a name on the piano?

The number suggests that the piano was built in 1890.

Hearsay is a constant problem to any kind of historian: Someone who knew him and worked with him told me that Stanley's name was not Brinsmead originally, although there was a middle name Stanley in the family of the more famous Brinsmead piano makers. He made or produced pianos with just "Brinsmead...

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