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by Bill Kibby
22 Oct 2018, 11:09
Forum: Piano History
Topic: John Spencer & Co., London
Replies: 42
Views: 23496

Re: John Spencer & Co., London

You are quite right, the number suggests that it was made around 1913. What other sort of information are you hoping for? My own website has general information at
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html
but no archives are available to tell us anything about individual Spencer pianos.
by Bill Kibby
21 Oct 2018, 11:49
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Lichtenstein upright
Replies: 1
Views: 19

Re: Lichtenstein upright

"Lichtenstein" pianos were made by Wolfframm, but I have no dates for their numbers. The questions you are asking are impossible to answer without being on the spot to inspect it, so your local tuner is the best person to ask.
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 12:15
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Schwander Simplex in Bosendorfer
Replies: 3
Views: 90

Re: Schwander Simplex in Bosendorfer

The Schwander number confirms that it is about 1898, as you can see on my own website at http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html so it seems to be original. After what they did to his family in the 1914 war, Schwander refused to deal with Germans, but I don't know if that applied to Austria. I ten...
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 12:04
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Erard london splay leg serial 9451
Replies: 6
Views: 128

Re: Erard london splay leg serial 9451

These legs are known as "Pan Legs" because the god Pan was illustrated as having legs like a wolf, and that is what they seem to represent. They are typical of the 1860s, as explained on my own website at http://www.pianohistory.info/victorian.html They are not really splayed! It may seem that Pierc...
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 09:44
Forum: Piano History
Topic: History and Age - W F Cole and Sons
Replies: 1
Views: 21

Re: History and Age - W F Cole and Sons

I have previously dealt with this one by email, it appears to be a typical twenties upright, and I would guess it was made around 1924.
by Bill Kibby
16 Oct 2018, 19:03
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Erard london splay leg serial 9451
Replies: 6
Views: 128

Re: Erard london splay leg serial 9451

I'm sorry I can't quite follow some of your sentences, and I have no idea what you mean by splay legs. For Erard London numbers see http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html These suggest that the piano might be 1865, but it is unwise to rely purely on numbers to date a piano. Are you able to post p...
by Bill Kibby
14 Oct 2018, 00:07
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Kemble minx age
Replies: 6
Views: 1216

Re: Kemble minx age

Are you having trouble dating a Kemble Minx? I may be able to help.
by Bill Kibby
12 Oct 2018, 10:08
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Arthur Allison
Replies: 1
Views: 52

Arthur Allison

My Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems. The page confirms that your number is probably just before 1883, but check in case there are other numbers inside. Most pianos have several. I coul...
by Bill Kibby
07 Oct 2018, 20:09
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Age Brooklyn Piano Co
Replies: 1
Views: 102

Re: Age Brooklyn Piano Co

RD is not a serial number, it stands for Registered Design. Even if you had a serial number it wouldn't help, because no information is published about their numbers. Green & Savage began making some pianos with the name Brooklyn in the late 1800s. In 1911, they were still listed as "Green & Savage,...
by Bill Kibby
30 Sep 2018, 22:42
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers
Replies: 1
Views: 99

Re: George Rogers

As it says at the top of this forum, nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and checking how well it holds in tune, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that.

The number suggests that it was made in 1905.
by Bill Kibby
24 Sep 2018, 21:37
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's
Replies: 4
Views: 247

Re: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's

Have you checked for dates on top of the hammer rail, or on or under the bottom few keys? Or perhaps even the top few keys.
by Bill Kibby
24 Sep 2018, 09:35
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Vincity Tây Mỗ Đại Mỗ liệu có phù hợp với mọi tầng lớp?
Replies: 0
Views: 88

Re: 1960 Steinway upright valuation

As it says at the top of this forum, nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and checking how well it holds in tune, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that.
by Bill Kibby
21 Sep 2018, 19:48
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's
Replies: 4
Views: 247

Re: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's

At the risk of offending piano makers, I have to say that most modern pianos are like modern cars, there is very little to distinguish this one from many others, especially in a photo. I spend a lot of my time with my head in the 1800s, so I am no help here! No doubt one of the modern retailers will...
by Bill Kibby
20 Sep 2018, 11:29
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Princess Piano
Replies: 0
Views: 111

Re: Princess Piano

As it says at the top of the forum, nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and checking how well it holds in tune, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that. Here in Britain, where antique pianos are plentiful, unrestored ones ha...
by Bill Kibby
18 Sep 2018, 15:05
Forum: Piano History
Topic: My J&J Hopkinson London Piano
Replies: 7
Views: 5406

Re: My J&J Hopkinson London Piano

This has nothing to do with Hopkinson, you will get better results if you post it as a NEW TOPIC.

I explained when you emailed me 4 times that I do not understand your English, so I do not know what you want to know.

If you write to me in your own language, I will translate it.
by Bill Kibby
08 Sep 2018, 10:51
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Piano signed by Henry Wood
Replies: 5
Views: 1689

Re: Piano signed by Henry Wood

The certificate of authenticity was quite normal, my Names page at pianohistory.info mentions them, but I haven't come across the other part connecting it with Henry Wood. It almost seems to imply that he checked the piano himself, and then signed it. One imagines he may have had better things to do...
by Bill Kibby
31 Aug 2018, 12:27
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Dale Forty
Replies: 2
Views: 157

Re: Dale Forty

They certainly turned out some of these little Student Pianos around 1920, but I am not convinced they made them, some of their pianos were made by Challen, Cramer and others. I will see what I can find out. There is a slight possibility that it was the 22nd piano made in 1943. Imagine - Pierce didn...
by Bill Kibby
31 Aug 2018, 11:47
Forum: Piano History
Topic: How to find a serial number
Replies: 3
Views: 334

Re: How to find a serial number

Have a look at my Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html which explains that serial numbers are usually 5 or 6 digits long, so 1157 is not it, although most pianos have several numbers inside, and we can't always say what they all mean, and it seems too big to be a model number. 1924...
by Bill Kibby
29 Aug 2018, 19:42
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Woodchester Grand piano?
Replies: 2
Views: 216

Re: Woodchester Grand piano?

Apart from the new uprights, I am not aware of a past piano firm named Woodchester, but Woodchester in Stroud was the home of the Stroud Piano Co., later known as Bentley, so I imagine the name was used by them.
by Bill Kibby
29 Aug 2018, 17:04
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Hime and Addison piano stool.
Replies: 4
Views: 256

Re: Hime and Addison piano stool.

I have no idea what happened to your first reply, but we didn't see it.

The easiest way is to email photos to me and I will post them for you.

Did you look at Google Images?
by Bill Kibby
25 Aug 2018, 19:14
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Hime and Addison piano stool.
Replies: 4
Views: 256

Re: Hime and Addison piano stool.

Normally, there is a knob on each side, and you simply turn them both together. I can't picture the device you describe, so photos might help.#

It's worth searching google images for adjustable piano stool.

Hime & Addison were dealers from the late 1800s onwards.
by Bill Kibby
22 Jul 2018, 20:12
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Ralph Allisons and Sons Limited London
Replies: 2
Views: 2914

Re: Ralph Allisons and Sons Limited London

It looks like something from the 1890s, and that number suggests that it may be from around 1897. Have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html
by Bill Kibby
22 Jul 2018, 20:05
Forum: Piano History
Topic: piano Erard
Replies: 1
Views: 121

Re: piano Erard

My Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html explains that it often not as simple as it seems to date a piano purely on the basis of numbers, #62105 suggests that it may have been made around 1890, but are there any other numbers in there? Please tell us the exact, complete wording of t...
by Bill Kibby
20 Jul 2018, 11:55
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Robert Cocks & Co.
Replies: 11
Views: 5619

Re: Robert Cocks & Co.

Thanks but I have no dealings with facebook, it won't let me view the photos. Any chance you could email them to me? The links all seem to be the same. And could you show me what the WHOLE piano looks like, that is often more useful than interior details. To quote the main page on my own website, no...
by Bill Kibby
19 Jul 2018, 15:38
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Piano History Museum
Replies: 1
Views: 701

Re: Piano History Museum

If anyone in England wants to donate non-upright pianos, or pre-victorian instruments, including clavichord or harpichord, I would be pleased to hear from you. It is difficult to find interesting developments at the modern end of things, and we would like to find a Kemble portable in any state.
by Bill Kibby
16 Jul 2018, 14:04
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers & Sons date please
Replies: 2
Views: 284

Re: George Rogers & Sons date please

Charles J. Vincent was based in Sunderland, does that seem likely?
by Bill Kibby
16 Jul 2018, 13:12
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers & Sons date please
Replies: 2
Views: 284

Re: George Rogers & Sons date please

Posting it under two separate headings creates a lot of confusion, so please stick to replying on this one so we can help you. The number suggests that it was made in 1910, but my Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is oft...
by Bill Kibby
10 Jul 2018, 21:14
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Eavestaff Pianette "Minipiano"
Replies: 24
Views: 27097

Re: Eavestaff Pianette "Minipiano"

Thanks for showing us what it looks like. Under the keyboard is the tuning flap. If you open it, there should be a serial number at the lefthand end, imprinted in the wood. Can you tell me what it is? My experience of these is that although they can fetch a few hundred pounds, they often raise very ...
by Bill Kibby
06 Jul 2018, 19:59
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Carl Ecke Piano worth
Replies: 5
Views: 2886

Re: Carl Ecke Piano worth

I have no idea what BJ350 means!
by Bill Kibby
24 Jun 2018, 23:53
Forum: Piano History
Topic: William Gillegin
Replies: 8
Views: 7485

Re: WILLIAM GILLEGIN

I can find no record of any music or piano firms with this unusual spelling, but there is a tuner named WIlliam Gilligan listed in 1891, the more usual spelling.
1891GilliganGillegin137x.jpg
He is also listed in my Post Office London Directory for 1892, still as a pianoforte tuner.
by Bill Kibby
20 Jun 2018, 14:23
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Geo. Russell Piano
Replies: 4
Views: 967

Re: Geo. Russell Piano

The only other clue I have so far is that they were known as George Russell AND COMPANY by 1886, so the piano is probably before that, and after 1880, so the mean date would be "circa 1883".
by Bill Kibby
19 Jun 2018, 12:41
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Geo. Russell Piano
Replies: 4
Views: 967

Re: George Russell Piano

The key coverings are ivory. Thanks for the photos, the most important one for me is the one that shows what the whole piano looks like. This is a Victorian Cottage Piano, as described at http://www.pianohistory.info/victorian.html These are the most common surviving Victorian pianos, and I spend a ...
by Bill Kibby
10 Jun 2018, 10:48
Forum: Piano History
Topic: John Brinsmead upright piano
Replies: 1
Views: 402

Re: Information on John Brinsmead upright piano

Normally, you should be able to just open the top and look inside to find numbers, there may be more than one. My Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is not always as simple as it seems, and if you can post photos here to ...
by Bill Kibby
20 May 2018, 19:54
Forum: Piano History
Topic: C Otto Berlin, upright piano
Replies: 1
Views: 370

Re: C Otto Berlin, upright piano

The tuning dates are often a good clue, I would have put the Lexow number around 1903, but that's close enough. I know very little about C. Otto. The main number seems to be 14509, but it doesn't line up with Carl Otto's numbers.
by Bill Kibby
20 May 2018, 19:36
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Broadwood Green Frame
Replies: 3
Views: 938

Re: Broadwood Green Frame

Sounds like a question you should ask Broadwoods. I confess that in all the piano specifications I have on file, I rarely mention the colour of the frame. If I had realised that it would be important to anyone, I would have added the colour to my list of details.
by Bill Kibby
16 May 2018, 10:18
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Wegner upright piano
Replies: 2
Views: 3005

Re: Wegner upright piano

You don't give the number. There were several piano and music firms named Wegner in the twenties, in Germany and Austria, but the American ones were (as you say) made by Kreiter, Milwaukee. They were established in 1896, so I don't know what 1885 is about, perhaps it is just a number. It's unlikely ...
by Bill Kibby
04 May 2018, 16:45
Forum: Piano History
Topic: J.&J. HOPKINSON PIANO
Replies: 7
Views: 1661

Re: J.&J. HOPKINSON PIANO

I found the retailer, his name was Haigh. The following information suggests that he doesn't seem to have started until the 1890s, but it simply means he was not listed in directories, and we have to assume that he sold it new in the 1870s, because it says "made for", and the serial number suggests ...
by Bill Kibby
01 May 2018, 22:15
Forum: Piano History
Topic: j.Becker help with age or info
Replies: 1
Views: 684

Re: j.Becker help with age or info

There are very few published dates for Becker serial numbers, and they don't always agree with each other. Someone calling himself Finland_tuner says he has dates of numbers. Perhaps you can find him on the internet. Around a century ago, there was a fad for dressing up pianos to look as if they wer...
by Bill Kibby
30 Apr 2018, 13:52
Forum: Piano History
Topic: J.&J. HOPKINSON PIANO
Replies: 7
Views: 1661

Re: J.&J. HOPKINSON PIANO

This is a history forum, we don't reject pianos just because they don't conform to modern specifications. Most of the pianos in my piano history museum (under construction) will not conform, but if you like the piano, and want to keep it, you will probably spend more on tuning than it is worth. Some...
by Bill Kibby
30 Apr 2018, 13:44
Forum: Piano Advice
Topic: Challen Bureau Piano
Replies: 21
Views: 2685

Re: Challen Bureau Piano

I am amazed that so much space is devoted to a click in a piano, when a tuner on the spot should be able to sort it out. How can we guess what it is from here?
by Bill Kibby
25 Apr 2018, 17:07
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steinway Model B “modern legs” have same serial number
Replies: 3
Views: 775

Re: Steinway Model B “modern legs” have same serial number

I wouldn't say it was normal practice, and many pianos are modernised with no thought for history, but it seems likely that whoever did the job bought a set of number punches and made it more authentic... Or were they being devious and trying to make it seem original? I would have thought that the l...
by Bill Kibby
22 Apr 2018, 22:45
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Sames Piano
Replies: 2
Views: 582

Re: Sames Piano

Now that I can see the photos, it obviously is a Same S piano. Unfortunately, no serial number dates are available for these, but I would guess it was made around 1921, around the time of their factory fire. I have no prices for Sames around that time, but in the twenties some of their uprights were...
by Bill Kibby
22 Apr 2018, 22:23
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Sames Piano
Replies: 2
Views: 582

Re: Same Piano help please

Sorry, I don't understand, what do you mean by "same piano"? Is it made by William Sames?
by Bill Kibby
10 Apr 2018, 17:03
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Hofmann 19306 Donated to Charity
Replies: 2
Views: 805

Re: Hofmann 19306 Donated to Charity

I'm sorry to say you have very little hope of learning anything from that name. I have a Hofmann upright, English Edwardian, but grands are usually difficult to date by appearance. The photos are such low resolution I can't see any useful detail. There were over 40 piano and music firms called Hofma...
by Bill Kibby
06 Apr 2018, 09:22
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Görs & Kallmann made in London
Replies: 3
Views: 830

Re: Görs & Kallmann made in London

My Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html has a list for Gors & Kallmann, and says... 1934 Challen pianos were being made in London at the Brasted factory, with the “Gors & Kallmann” name on them, and numbers in the 120,000 range, which do not correspond to serial numbers for Gors & ...
by Bill Kibby
06 Apr 2018, 00:31
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Kemble minx age
Replies: 6
Views: 1216

Re: Kemble minx age

My Numbers page
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html
explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems.
by Bill Kibby
06 Apr 2018, 00:26
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Truck stuck
Replies: 0
Views: 733

Truck stuck

Now that most of our pianos are in place in the museum space, I really don't want to be driving a big van around, but I need to have the option of picking up or delivering ONE piano, and that's where I want to pick the brains of any of you who are in the piano trade. Suzukipickup850.jpg I used to dr...
by Bill Kibby
03 Apr 2018, 20:34
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Kemble minx age
Replies: 6
Views: 1216

Re: Kemble minx age

That should be 1938, but there is probably a label on the key-frame. I played one in a local pub, and found that I was playing it on its 80th birthday!
by Bill Kibby
28 Mar 2018, 20:33
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Piano History Museum
Replies: 1
Views: 701

Piano History Museum

Having spent over ten years planning layouts for buildings that never happened, it is a strange feeling to be actually standing in a large museum time-line space, and not only shifting actual pianos around, (rather than drawings on a screen) but also doing building work, and trying my best to compre...
by Bill Kibby
25 Mar 2018, 14:03
Forum: Piano History
Topic: J. Becker grand piano
Replies: 27
Views: 16447

Re: J. Becker grand piano

I realise this is not a grand, but is it a Becker? If not, you should post it again as a NEW TOPIC or you won't get much response. Please tell us any names and information you can find, and also have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html