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by Bill Kibby
11 Apr 2019, 09:23
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Age of my piano Rud Ibach Sohn
Replies: 1
Views: 93

Age of Rud Ibach Sohn

Any relation to historian Lucy? I don't know what "the keyboard comes out" means, or how it makes it louder. Whitfields were known as Whitfields Johnson until at least 1899, so the piano was sold by them in the 1900s, but you have not given me any information that would place it in sequence with the...
by Bill Kibby
07 Apr 2019, 09:46
Forum: Piano History
Topic: John Broadwood and Sons Upright Piano
Replies: 1
Views: 255

Re: John Broadwood and Sons Upright Piano

Dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as easy at it seems, but this one suggests 1911, and from the pictures, that seems possible, although I would have guessed nearer 1918. It was, of course, made in Broadwoods' London factory, but the only way you might learn more is by contact...
by Bill Kibby
24 Mar 2019, 15:57
Forum: Piano History
Topic: John Spencer & Co London Piano
Replies: 3
Views: 200

John Spencer London Piano

It has been modernised, the plain front and curved columns are not Edwardian. The number seems quite clear - 48722, which suggests 1907. Have a look at http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html Unfortunately, Edwardian pianos are hard to sell at all in England, and fetch very little. Many are untu...
by Bill Kibby
20 Mar 2019, 11:26
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Muller-Schiedmayer upright hybrid
Replies: 1
Views: 78

Re: Muller-Schiedmayer upright hybrid

Are you able to post photos here to show us what the piano looks like? Or email to me to post?

It sounds like the 1950s trend towards making upright pianos resemble grands, but only in a very superficial way. Hybrid is perhaps too strong a word for those.
by Bill Kibby
28 Feb 2019, 20:13
Forum: Piano History
Topic: STURNE baby grand
Replies: 4
Views: 2887

Re: STURNE baby grand

This is one of many names that always seem to be used on modernised British pianos that have lost their original name transfers. The transfers were available for a few pence, and these meaningless names are a joke in the piano workshops. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html
by Bill Kibby
28 Feb 2019, 20:06
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers & Son
Replies: 3
Views: 272

Re: George Rogers & Son

It looks like something from the late twenties, but I can't be precise. You should find a number approaching 40,000. Have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html
by Bill Kibby
27 Feb 2019, 18:30
Forum: Piano History
Topic: G. Schwechten Piano Forte
Replies: 1
Views: 91

Re: G. Schwechten Piano Forte

Could you send photos to show what the whole piano looks like? #19654 suggests 1881 but dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html
by Bill Kibby
24 Feb 2019, 00:48
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steinberg Baby Grand
Replies: 1
Views: 88

Re: Steinberg Baby Grand

There were at least 4 different firms using the name Steinberg, with no definite reliable dates for serial numbers, even if you know which firm made it. See
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html
for more information. For more information on numbers, see the Numbers page there.
by Bill Kibby
25 Jan 2019, 13:21
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Holling and Spangenberg
Replies: 1
Views: 293

Re: Holling and Spangenberg

When you are searching it is useful to be aware that some people "translate" the spelling rather than type accents, so Hoelling may be spelt Hohlling, or Holling as you have done. It is probably easier to search for Spangenberg. I am not aware of any published dates for their numbers. If your tuner ...
by Bill Kibby
23 Jan 2019, 19:11
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steck Grand
Replies: 1
Views: 157

Re: Steck Grand

The number suggests 1902, but these pianos were made in three different countries using three different sets of numbers, and I have no information about German ones.
by Bill Kibby
23 Jan 2019, 13:10
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Wilhelm Spaethe
Replies: 1
Views: 144

Re: Wilhelm Spaethe

As far as I am aware, Spaethe is one of many makers whose numbers are not published. If your tuner thinks it is safe to remove the action (the working parts of the notes) it may be marked on the back with the action makers' name and number, and I may be able to date this. If you can post photos here...
by Bill Kibby
21 Jan 2019, 18:06
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Age of my piano
Replies: 2
Views: 205

Re: Age of my piano

RD could be a registered design number, or more likely, if it is R&D it was sold by Rushworth & Dreaper and this would be their stock number. None of which helps, but a photo showing what the whole piano looks like on the outside might help. Is there a name on the piano?
by Bill Kibby
21 Jan 2019, 17:58
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Spencer piano age
Replies: 1
Views: 244

Spencer #14431

The number suggests that the piano was built in 1890.
by Bill Kibby
19 Jan 2019, 12:27
Forum: Piano History
Topic: STANLEY Brinsmead
Replies: 1
Views: 158

Re: STANLEY Brinsmead

Hearsay is a constant problem to any kind of historian: Someone who knew him and worked with him told me that Stanley's name was not Brinsmead originally, although there was a middle name Stanley in the family of the more famous Brinsmead piano makers. He made or produced pianos with just "Brinsmead...
by Bill Kibby
19 Jan 2019, 12:13
Forum: Piano History
Topic: NUTTING piano age?
Replies: 3
Views: 460

NUTTING piano

I can't tell you what it is worth wherever you live, but here in the UK, I'm afraid the word "lucrative" doesn't come into it with these, the most common Victorian pianos, and they are rarely worth the cost of restoration, and although some people do it for the love, or to preserve history, sadly ma...
by Bill Kibby
18 Jan 2019, 14:54
Forum: Piano History
Topic: NUTTING piano age?
Replies: 3
Views: 460

George Nutting

Thank you for having the common sense to show us what the WHOLE piano looks like! Yes, it was quite common for London piano firms to have frequent changes in partners, resulting in changes in the company name. To make it worse, the names often overlapped for years. NUTTING COMPANY NAMES In the early...
by Bill Kibby
17 Jan 2019, 12:38
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Spencer piano to sell/give away
Replies: 1
Views: 207

Re: Date of Piano and best place to sell/give away

As always, it would be much better to photograph the WHOLE piano so we can see what it looks like, but the number suggests it was made in 1912. Old unrestored uprights from around the Edwardian period are so numerous, and many are queueing up to be scrapped, so they usually have very little value, a...
by Bill Kibby
16 Jan 2019, 22:58
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Dating a Chappell & Co piano
Replies: 5
Views: 414

Re: Dating a Chappell & Co piano

Thanks. On my Victorian page, I mention Pan Legs, and these were not common before 1860, but this is an early style of casework which might be 1850s. The page also refers to the dating of pianos on the bottom keys as early as the 1850s. At that time, it seems that Chappells mainly sold pianos in the...
by Bill Kibby
16 Jan 2019, 17:21
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Dating a Chappell & Co piano
Replies: 5
Views: 414

Re: Dating a Chappell & Co piano

If you have a look at the Chappell information on my Numbers page at pianohistory.info "Samuel Chappell was involved in the music business by 1810, but although they quote serial number dates from 1840, the company didn’t start making their own pianos until 1861. The main numbers for Chappell pianos...
by Bill Kibby
14 Jan 2019, 13:51
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Harper Piano Co Ltd
Replies: 1
Views: 138

Re: Harper Piano Co Ltd

Nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot.

Harper pianos were average commercial instruments, and if it is an Edwardian style, there are so many around the UK that unrestored ones have little or no value. I am offered several each year for nothing.
by Bill Kibby
10 Jan 2019, 16:14
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Erard london serial 9451
Replies: 15
Views: 1921

Re: Erard london serial 9451

Are you asking if it is straight strung? It is not vertical-strung but like many Erards, it is oblique-strung, the bass strings would make this clearer, sloping diagonally in order to get more length, to improve the tonal quality.
by Bill Kibby
09 Jan 2019, 18:59
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Carl Ecke Berlin Date estimations
Replies: 4
Views: 538

Re: Carl Ecke Berlin Date estimations

The medal shown there is from the Antwerp Exhibition of 1885, so your piano was made after that event. The action remains your most likely source of a date. The other photos didn't show up.
by Bill Kibby
06 Jan 2019, 21:02
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Carl Ecke Berlin Date estimations
Replies: 4
Views: 538

Re: Carl Ecke Berlin Date estimations

My Numbers page at pianohistory.info explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems, especially as most pianos have several numbers inside. The number suggests about 1867, but there aren't many German pianos around from that early. I don't think there a...
by Bill Kibby
06 Jan 2019, 20:55
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Carl Ecke Berlin Date
Replies: 1
Views: 164

Re: Carl Ecke Berlin Date estimations

See other post
by Bill Kibby
02 Jan 2019, 18:10
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers & Son
Replies: 3
Views: 272

George Rogers & Son

What sort of piano is this? The Numbers page at pianohistory.info explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems, and most pianos have several numbers inside. The name doesn't tell us anything about the individual piano, but it suggests a date after 187...
by Bill Kibby
15 Dec 2018, 22:05
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Piano oscar Köhler Berlin information
Replies: 4
Views: 756

Re: Piano oscar Köhler Berlin information

There is an awful lot of rubbish on the internet about a piano being one of only 3 or 4, but there are already about 3 of these on Google Images, and nobody has checked every house in the world. Some people think that the internet has all the answers, but I have many names on file that are not liste...
by Bill Kibby
15 Dec 2018, 18:10
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Kemble Baby Grand
Replies: 3
Views: 336

Re: Kemble Baby Grand

Your English is better than some English people's! These cabriole legs were very popular in the fifties, but it is almost impossible to date most grands of the 1900s by their appearance. You could try crawling underneath to look for a number, but check that there is absolutely no movement in the leg...
by Bill Kibby
13 Dec 2018, 22:32
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Piano oscar Köhler Berlin information
Replies: 4
Views: 756

Re: Piano oscar Köhler Berlin information

Oscar Kohler was a maker of piano actions, and as far as I am aware he did not have a piano factory, so it is a surprise seeing this example. I can only guess it might be from the twenties.
by Bill Kibby
13 Dec 2018, 22:28
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Leonard Leipzig, 85 key piano
Replies: 1
Views: 406

Re: Leonard Leipzig, 85 key piano

My Names page at pianohistory.info explains that many piano names are meaningless, and fake German names are common. 7 octaves (85 notes) is the most common range for antique pianos. Lots of them were still made when I was selling them in the sixties. What I would like to see is what the whole piano...
by Bill Kibby
13 Dec 2018, 22:25
Forum: Piano History
Topic: B. Squire & Son looks nice, have no information.
Replies: 3
Views: 697

Re: B. Squire & Son looks nice, have no information.

Plusnet having been doing me proud, but not actually fixing the internet for 3 weeks. I will examine the photos, but 1880s looks likely.
by Bill Kibby
11 Nov 2018, 14:52
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Walstein & Sohn Berlin piano
Replies: 1
Views: 377

Walstein & Sohn Berlin piano

I would guess it was made around 1901. Numbers are no help unless they have been published. There are a couple on Gumtree. The Names page on my own website http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html explains that many piano names are meaningless. It has an item about apparently German names that begin ...
by Bill Kibby
30 Oct 2018, 20:22
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steck small grand
Replies: 5
Views: 726

Re: Steck small grand

I'm sorry if we were at cross-purposes, but the matter of numbers in pianos is not simple, as my Numbers page explains. With a Schwander action, we would hope for a 6-digit number, probably next to the Schwander name. Many actions and keys have other numbers that meant something someone at the time,...
by Bill Kibby
29 Oct 2018, 23:07
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steck small grand
Replies: 5
Views: 726

Re: Steck small grand

We are not looking for other numbers, it is a matter of whether the published dates are correct, I can't answer that.
by Bill Kibby
24 Oct 2018, 10:32
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Pohlmann and Sons upright
Replies: 9
Views: 949

Re: Pohlmann and Sons upright

I had a look at my tuning records, and there was one very average Pohlmann made around 1898, originally £55. How can I form an opinion based on just one very old one I tuned in 1978? Do we even know if Pohlmann made them?
by Bill Kibby
23 Oct 2018, 21:21
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Steck small grand
Replies: 5
Views: 726

Re: Steck small grand

Does the Schwander action have a number? And is the name Herrburger Brooks mentioned on it? This would suggest a date after 1919. It is usually impossible to date grands of the 1900s by their appearance, because by about 1920, they were all so similar. To quote my Numbers page http://www.pianohistor...
by Bill Kibby
23 Oct 2018, 21:13
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Pohlmann and Sons upright
Replies: 9
Views: 949

Re: Pohlmann and Sons upright

I doubt if dates are available for their numbers, but I will check. Otherwise, I can only say they are not "common", I don't think I have ever tuned one since 1963.
by Bill Kibby
23 Oct 2018, 21:10
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Bansall & Sons Piano from Salkind, Norfolk
Replies: 7
Views: 4542

Re: Bansall & Sons Piano from Salkind, Norfolk

Perhaps James or Jaime will see your posting and get in touch.
by Bill Kibby
22 Oct 2018, 14:17
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Lichtenstein upright
Replies: 3
Views: 449

Re: Lichtenstein upright

I have never seen one so I can't help you with that.
by Bill Kibby
22 Oct 2018, 11:09
Forum: Piano History
Topic: John Spencer & Co., London
Replies: 42
Views: 29175

Re: John Spencer & Co., London

You are quite right, the number suggests that it was made around 1913. What other sort of information are you hoping for? My own website has general information at
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html
but no archives are available to tell us anything about individual Spencer pianos.
by Bill Kibby
21 Oct 2018, 11:49
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Lichtenstein upright
Replies: 3
Views: 449

Re: Lichtenstein upright

"Lichtenstein" pianos were made by Wolfframm, but I have no dates for their numbers. The questions you are asking are impossible to answer without being on the spot to inspect it, so your local tuner is the best person to ask.
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 12:15
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Schwander Simplex in Bosendorfer
Replies: 3
Views: 531

Re: Schwander Simplex in Bosendorfer

The Schwander number confirms that it is about 1898, as you can see on my own website at http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html so it seems to be original. After what they did to his family in the 1914 war, Schwander refused to deal with Germans, but I don't know if that applied to Austria. I ten...
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 12:04
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Erard london serial 9451
Replies: 15
Views: 1921

Re: Erard london splay leg serial 9451

These legs are known as "French Legs" or "Swan Legs". They are typical of the 1860s, as explained on my own website at http://www.pianohistory.info/victorian.html They are not really splayed! Look up the meaning of the word. The dates I published are based on definite dates imprinted inside London E...
by Bill Kibby
18 Oct 2018, 09:44
Forum: Piano History
Topic: History and Age - W F Cole and Sons
Replies: 1
Views: 266

Re: History and Age - W F Cole and Sons

I have previously dealt with this one by email, it appears to be a typical twenties upright, and I would guess it was made around 1924.
by Bill Kibby
16 Oct 2018, 19:03
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Erard london serial 9451
Replies: 15
Views: 1921

Re: Erard london serial 9451

I'm sorry I can't quite follow some of your sentences, and I have no idea what you mean by splay legs. These are "French Legs", also known as "Swan Legs". For Erard London numbers see http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html These suggest that the piano might be 1865, but the page explains that it ...
by Bill Kibby
14 Oct 2018, 00:07
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Kemble minx age
Replies: 6
Views: 2558

Re: Kemble minx age

Are you having trouble dating a Kemble Minx? I may be able to help.
by Bill Kibby
12 Oct 2018, 10:08
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Arthur Allison
Replies: 1
Views: 305

Arthur Allison

My Numbers page http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html explains that dating pianos purely on the basis of numbers is often not as simple as it seems. The page confirms that your number is probably just before 1883, but check in case there are other numbers inside. Most pianos have several. I coul...
by Bill Kibby
07 Oct 2018, 20:09
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Age Brooklyn Piano Co
Replies: 1
Views: 378

Re: Age Brooklyn Piano Co

RD is not a serial number, it stands for Registered Design. Even if you had a serial number it wouldn't help, because no information is published about their numbers. Green & Savage began making some pianos with the name Brooklyn in the late 1800s. In 1911, they were still listed as "Green & Savage,...
by Bill Kibby
30 Sep 2018, 22:42
Forum: Piano History
Topic: George Rogers
Replies: 1
Views: 387

Re: George Rogers

As it says at the top of this forum, nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and checking how well it holds in tune, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that.

The number suggests that it was made in 1905.
by Bill Kibby
24 Sep 2018, 21:37
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's
Replies: 4
Views: 899

Re: Amadeus Piano circa 1980's

Have you checked for dates on top of the hammer rail, or on or under the bottom few keys? Or perhaps even the top few keys.
by Bill Kibby
24 Sep 2018, 09:35
Forum: Piano History
Topic: Vincity Tây Mỗ Đại Mỗ liệu có phù hợp với mọi tầng lớp?
Replies: 0
Views: 477

Re: 1960 Steinway upright valuation

As it says at the top of this forum, nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and checking how well it holds in tune, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that.