Kawai K2 heavy action

[Hansel]

Hi everyone

I would like some advice regarding the touch weight of my piano. The piano was bought new from a local shop exactly a year ago and is a Kawai K2. It was bought for my two daughters age 9 and 11 who are at grade 1 and 2 standard. We all tried the piano (myself included although I am also only at grade 2 level) and at the time the touch felt heavy but we put this down to being used to playing an unweighted keyboard. We really like the piano (especially the tone) and I have never really thought about the touch weight until one of my daughters recently said she wished the keys were easier to press like their teacher's piano. I have now had the opportunity to try another new K2 and K3 in a different shop and also a used yamaha U1, our teachers new Bentley, and also a friends Clavinova. Without exception the action all all these other instruments feels to me much lighter and easier to play than our own piano which is heavy and sluggish in comparison.

I would like to ask if our piano is 'normal' and if not if there is an easy adjustment that can be made to correct the heavy feel of the keys. The only information about adjusting key weight I can find on the internet refers to drilling the keys and adding lead weights which seems a little extreme to me for what is essentially a new piano.

Any advice much appreciated

[dancarney]

Your best bet is to ask your tuner to check the regulation.

He/she may be able to check the actual touch weight. It might be also an idea to contact the place of purchase to make them aware of the problem; they may offer a solution (as it's only 12 months old).

[vernon]

I'm surprised you find the K2 heavy. tHEIR TOUCH IS DELIGHTFUL.
However, go back to your dealer,tell him your observations and he should do you a good deal on another k2 or similar.
We are here to serve!

[Colin Nicholson]

Where is the piano located in your home?
Kitchen/ Living room.... ?.... just asking out of interest

If the room is damp or cold (above 60% humidity), this effects pianos - so keys may need easing in the middle (common cause) .... or some re-pinning necessary. Some new pianos are not fully regulated in the shop.

Touch weight should be between 48g - 52g for an upright.
Touch weights are only available through the trade, and its best not to try and drill anything or remove the lead weights.... it needs an expert technician.

Here are some touch weight below....

Touch weights

Hope that helps

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi everyone


I would like to ask if our piano is 'normal' and if not if there is an easy adjustment that can be made to correct the heavy feel of the keys. The only information about adjusting key weight I can find on the internet refers to drilling the keys and adding lead weights which seems a little extreme to me for what is essentially a new piano.

Any advice much appreciated

do not change the lead weights as they are factory set and only need changing if you change the hammer mass with new hammers.

Up weight is just as important as down weight that tells us how much friction is in the action. I would suspect that the keys need easing that is the most common on newish piano Kawai K2 have a nice responsive action. I would take some humidity levels first to see where you are at, if over 65% over time this can swell the bushing in the keys and the flanges, causing friction. Your tuner should look at the up and down weight, and advise you on a solution short term and long term if it is a humidity problem.


Barrie

[Colin Nicholson]

There's a makeshift test you can do to test the touch weight - its not 100% reliable, but it will give you a rough idea.

You have to have some accurate digital scales, or balance weights that make up 52 grams.... if so, then here's what to do....

1. Get a small pile of coins, enough to make 52g in weight. Make sure the coins dont touch the sides of the neighbouring keys (eg 50p coins are too big) .... try a few £1 coins to start with.... and work down in weight.

2. Rest your coins on Middle C at the end of the key.
3. Press the sustain pedal (right) down fully.
4. If the mechanism & keys are balanced right (52g weight), the key should move down slowly in slow motion fully. (see photo above)

If the key doesnt move (or just winks), then the touch weight is too heavy.
On the other hand, if the key moves down before you press the pedal (or the key moves down quickly), the touch weight is too light..... but I suspect this wont happen on your piano.

Perhaps start with 48 grams and work up to 52 grams. The bass notes will be slightly heavier because the hammers are larger.

If the touch weight exceeds say around 56-60 grams, then get a technician to ease all the keys - they may have swolen. However, if the piano is subject to damp or cold conditions, this may also affect the tiny centre pins that act as hinges for the parts to move..... and I doubt if that would be covered under warranty (depending if you have a warranty agreement?)

Dont forget though - this is just a rough guide, its best to get a technician out to check everything over.
Also dont compare too much older pianos with yours - these will probably be "worn in" now, and possibly excess 'play' on certain parts. New pianos take a while to settle in.

There are a few other small tests such as rapid repetition with the pedal, but a good pianist needs to test this. Other classic symptoms are 'positive motion'/ dampers lifting too early/ keys swolen/ tight centre pin flanges.

buy a cheap hygrometer on Amazon and stand it on your piano. The level of humidity should be around 40 - 55% ....


Colin

[Hansel]

Hi again

Thanks very much for the prompt advice.

The piano is kept in the dining room which is a downstairs room at the back of the house. It is not near a radiator. The room is north facing and doesn't get any sun but I wouldn't describe it as damp.

I have tried the weight test suggested using 1 penny coins. It takes 19 coins to depress the middle C key with the sustain peddle pressed as described. According to the Royal Mint's website a penny coin weighs 3.56g so this puts the weight required at 67.6g.

Regards

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi again

have tried the weight test suggested using 1 penny coins. It takes 19 coins to depress the middle C key with the sustain peddle pressed as described. According to the Royal Mint's website a penny coin weighs 3.56g so this puts the weight required at 67.6g.

Regards

Do the same test in reverse with pedal down remove one coin at a time see how many it will lift up

67g is on the heavy side

Barrie

[Hansel]

Hi

Once the key is depressed I have removed coins as suggested. When I get to 8 coins (28.5g) the key rises.

Thanks

[Colin Nicholson]

WOW! that is heavy.. I cant really describe here how to test the 'key drop' as it requires taking the mechanism & key rail out,,,, but here is another test you can do.

Open the top lid & look inside.
When you play middle C, the hammer will strike the string (the rounded felt part that moves away from you).
The damper is the small square piece of felt touching the string, this will move towards you (the damper is lower & behind the hammers) .... now then

Release middle C,,,, now press Middle C VERY very slowly - watch the hammer move slowly towards the strings (the hammer shouldnt touch the string)
At the same time - watch the damper. The damper should move away from the string after the hammer has travelled about half its journey. If the damper moves away from the string at the same time as the hammer moving forward (or fractionally after) - then this could be why your piano feels heavy.



Hope that is clear enough!

[Hansel]

Hi Colin

The damper doesn't begin to lift until the hammer has travelled about half way to the string as you have described.

Regards

[Colin Nicholson]

OK.... this is a bit like trying to land a Boeing 747 and the pilot has been shot dead!

The dampers are working fine then. Thanks for all your 'relaying'!

Only recommendation I can think of is the key easing issue, you'll need to book your local tuner I think.. sorry I cant do a online diagnosis!

[vernon]

It really is impossible tocover all aspects of regulation online and somewhere a technician must be consulted who will diagnose on the spot.
Obviously the first call is to your dealer and if there is a technical rather than an environmental problem then Kawai themselves would want to know. I've never had a problem with Kawai

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi

Once the key is depressed I have removed coins as suggested. When I get to 8 coins (28.5g) the key rises.

Thanks

You have a very sluggish action. you have about 14g of friction over the upper limits for most uprights its time to call in the tuner or the Dealer
can't give you Kawai figures but here are Yamaha number

Yamaha U3 normally come in to the UK with a Down weight of 56g and
Up weight of 31g after prep work the up weight is around 35g
Up weight is more important than down the grater the up the faster the action is

Barrie


Barrie

[joe]

Simple answer maybe that the front slip is catching the keys causing slight friction,quite a common complaint after delivery, caused by poor handling by removers.We would always pack front slip to avoid this scenario,just a thought would get local tech to have a look.

[Hansel]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

I will arrange for my tuner tech to have a look and once I know what the problem is take this back to the dealer / Kawai if appropriate.

Regards

[sussexpianos]

Touch weighting is a very advanced skill which I would not recommend to any person not in the piano trade. Most people think you start with downweight, no; you start with upweight, gauge the movement and then do downweight. D-U=F for friction. This only tells you if there is a problem with the movement of parts. Most likely to be key bushings, followed by hammer centres etc.
HOWEVER, static weighting like this is now old school. It does not take in to account the playing weight. You can have a 50g down weight on one piano and the same on another, but one will play like a truck. Why? You need to understand PTD, piano touch design. Balance weight D +U /2= BW. This will give you some idea without the Friction which causes variations.
This is why some pianos play differently, even if you have 2 brand new model D's, each will play slightly different because they are still using the traditional old method of static weighting.