Veneer press for fallboard???

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi there, can anyone help out here?

I tune & service a customer's Bechstein upright piano regularly (Model 10) and travel 130 miles to the Lake District - then 130 miles back!! - twice a year. The customer was given the piano by a charity, and most of the veneer has lifted & cracked on the rear fall board section - running along where the hinge is - the fall board section that slots into the side cheeks - not the main fallboard with the makers name on.

Although I have done veneer replacements & french polishing etc., I have never done the curved part of the fallboard - it arcs about 80 degrees. I have heard of veneer presses that mould into a semicircular shape specially for clamping veneer of this shape, but don't know if you can still get hold of them - or does anyone know a good carpenter who can make one. The veneer has lifted/ cracked & bubbled about 3/4 of the length of the fallboard, and I was thinking of a section of wood about 30cm in length.

Has anyone any ideas? diagram below if it helps......

Cheers

Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

Heavy duty plastic bag seal it and attach a a powerful vacuum cleaner at one end and suck the air out make a vacuum press works well when you use contact glue

Other way is to cover Veneer in animal glue let it dry then wet it then use out side of an hot felt iron to rub on the veneer (the one we use on hammers (

Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

Thanks Barrie.

I should have explained better; the veneer doesn't need replacing as such, its cracked in a few places & lifted away near the hinge end, so I hope to just glue it back down. Would it be best to strip off the French polish before gluing & ironing? then re-polish it?

I think your "Plan B" sounds better for me.

Thanks

Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

OK put masking tape over the Veneer that has lifted then put contact glue on both the fall and veneer then will a roller press down the veneer then add some more masking tape over the tape and round the edge leave over night should be fine the tape protect Veneer from spiting

Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

Thanks alot Barrie, will try that.

[vernon]

remember that the veneer would have originally been put on with a veneer hammer. Have you got one?

[Colin Nicholson]

No I haven't got a veneer hammer - would it be best to get one?
The veneer has lifted & bubbled (and cracked in places) between 2 - 6cm from the hinge area upwards - all varying in length, and about half the length of the fallboard across is all affected.
I have a veneer roller - can you tell me what the hammer is for?

Thanks

[vernon]

the veneer hammer was a large chunk of iron on a handle with a rounded face. You heated it and rubbed the veneer down( with animal glue in those days) which dried the glue. Rather like the reverse of a hammer- toning iron.
Goodness knows if anyone sells them nowadays. mine belonged to great grand pa!

[Barrie Heaton]

I have a veneer roller - can you tell me what the hammer is for?

Thanks

The hammer is a block of wood with a metal edge - its to get the air pockets from under the veneer a roller is better for what you are doing, just use it to the edge to get all the air out

Myself I like hot glue and a hot roller or iron contact adhesive is just as good just make sure none is on the wood before you polish, clean off with methylated spirits but don't let it soak into the veneer.

Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

thank you both for that.
I had a sneak look on Ebay & Google, and see what you mean about their shape - bit like a window cleaner blade!

I did a French polishing course at John Boddy's of Boroughbridge, North Yorkshire about 10 years ago, but we were just shown how to French polish onto a pre-prepared section of new veneer, and we polished up an old knackered cabinet. Although I've done small veneer repairs on pianos (like the front leg posts that often get chipped), I thought I would never encounter a dreaded fallboard!!.... its all good experience.

Cheers
Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi Colin

Have you thought of the Polyester course, I did it this Year at Kong in Nuneaton its very good you also do modern satin finishes at the same time.



Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Barrie
Yes, always interested about that as most Yamaha/Kawai pianos are that.
I went to Kawai, Milton Keynes for 2 days in March, met Michio, Joe Carroll and all the tuners where we did some upright & grand regulation on the K15, K2, and GM10 - however they were a bit cagy about revealing info. However next door at Piano Logistics Removals, they have their own booth for doing polyester finishes. They just explained a few things, but didn't go into great detail. I went with Graham Gribbin from GSG Pianos, Halifax - I literally live 1 mile away from the shop & occasionally help out with sales/ tuning & repairs.

Perhaps if there was some of the GSG team were interested aswell, we could arrange a visit/course.

Do you have any more details about it?

I doubt if I would go on my own!!

Cheers
Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

I did it with F&N, Both Fletcher & Newman Ltd and Heckscher & Co,. Ltd do the course Fletcher now do it at Kong its self as the facilitates are better plus more staff at hand, great day, well worth it You start at 9 and end at 4.30 ish they feed and water you as well

IF you do French polishing or touch ups you can add yourself to our polishing section and if you do the polyester as well. there is quite a lot of work out there with just your own client base mine course has paid for its self

Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

Nice 1
I'll have a chat to Graham about it. He deals with F&N and I mainly deal with Graham/Phil at Heckschers, but we'll probably have a chat with Steve at F&N? (I think its him?) Heckschers did me a good deal on a bench truck a few years ago, and me and a mate were already in London.... and we dragged it onto the train back to Leeds!! - so I have stuck with them.

Do you know how much the 1 - day course is? (roughly)

Must admit, Kawai were superb and fed & watered us well with Japanese stuff & hotel all in.
Always interested in courses/ seminars - also went to Steinway in 2004 - bit "grubby" the area - think it was Acton? but we were well looked after!!

Thanks again

[athomik]

We've had König in for their one day course, which included all sorts of wood finish repair systems, as well as their polyester system. I've had some good results repairing chips in black polyster with their kit. You can get a bit carried away tryingto get it perfect until you realise that, at certain angles, you can always spot a repair, although you have to be quite picky and thorough to detect a good repair.

[Barrie Heaton]

Do you know how much the 1 - day course is? (roughly)

Thanks again

the full polishing starter kit is £300 ish for all the bits and bobs you will need As to the course its self for me it was free the ABPT pays for any training our members want to do up to a point. You can book them to come to a shop or you can go there we are not talking silly money if you go to a session set up by Hec or Flech I am guessing but its under £200 per person You will more than earn that on a few jobs some of the guys out there are charging £185 + for a small chip or scratch



Barrie

[Colin Nicholson]

Thanks Barrie,

I spoke to Graham today, and he has various "polyester kits" & said you need alot of tools etc. - but I can't afford the course just yet, as I'm moving house in 2-3 weeks, but will bear it in mind for the future. I believe Graham was charged about £500 for these guys to re-poly a G2 yamaha lid!! - must admit, its good money.

Cheers

Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

Thanks Barrie,
Graham was charged about £500 for these guys to re-poly a G2 yamaha lid!! - must admit, its good money.

Cheers

Colin

That will have been £550 + vat and that's trade price. A client of mine paid £700 + vat just to have a C7 fall re polished which was chipped ....!!! That got me thinking.... £££ Now I know I could have done that repair no problem. Which makes me thing it may have been repaired not resprayed. But the client was happy and that what matters.



Barrie,

[longbow]

If you have a word with Graham @ Heckschers he will usually give you a one on one polyester repair course FOC if you can drag yourself down to London! May cost if he has to travel to you though.

[Pianomate]

I know it's probably a bit late now but I have a technique for sticking back bubbled veneer. Dampen the area to soften it, and make a small slit in the middle along the grain. Inject a good wood glue into the cavity with a syringe and needle and rub the blister flat with a rubber roller until the veneer has bonded. Another technique is just to well dampen the area and then apply a little heat to soften the original animal glue and then roller back the blister.