Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

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mjm3012
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Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by mjm3012 » 07 Apr 2009, 15:14

Hi,

I wonder if you can advise me as to wether this is a good buy or not, I have negotiated a second-hand Yamaha CLP 820 for the sum of £425.00. It appears in good condition and the owner says it was bought new but rarely used and has basically been an item of furniture in their front room since bought.

We are purchasing it for my daughter and myself to hopefully learn on, my sister-in-law is a piano teacher and thinks it sounds ok but has no experience of buying second-hand and we are complete novices!

I wonder if you would be so good as to advise us : 1. How old this model could be
2. If the price being looked for is good value
3. If there are any common problems that we should be aware of when purchasing this
model or indeed any digital piano second-hand?

We would really value any advice as we do not want to waste £425.00!

Many thanks!

markymark
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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by markymark » 07 Apr 2009, 16:46

The CLP820 first appeared in 1998.

It was the bottom range of the CLP8XX series, much like the CLP320's standing compared to its bigger brothers. It has a lot of old features that have since been improved in future models since the one we're talking about.

While it may be a good option for your daughter to play around with, I think your seller is charging too much. The CLP220 could be bought for £668 and is a better digital piano than the one you are talking about which, on top of everything else, is 11 years old and out of date soundwise, keyboard action, polyphony... to mention a few.

Here are more of the specs:
Attachments
Specs.jpg

mjm3012
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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by mjm3012 » 07 Apr 2009, 20:22

Thanks, your information was very helpful and has made us reconsider a good deal, not sure what we will do now!

Out of interest, the seller says he bought this new 4 years ago, could this be true when the clp 820 was released 1998 or would it have been long out of production by then?

Thanks!

markymark
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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by markymark » 07 Apr 2009, 23:31

Well it's one of four possibilities then:

1. Either my information is absolutely wrong (despite having confirmed it on two other websites);
2. He bought the instrument years after it was actually released;
3. He has no idea when he bought it and is guessing or lying to make it sound modern;
4. He really bought it second hand.

The CLP3XX range came out around the summer of 2008. Four years ago, the CLP2XX range came out and moving back in time, the CLP9XX came out for a period of years before that. Usually, Yamaha bring out a new range every four years, or thereabouts. Either way, you don't need too much imagination to see that something isn't adding up here with what the seller is saying. We have to move three model releases back to find the CLP8XX series. Even if each model range were to be realeased one year after the other (which is financially impossible!) he may have been able to buy it brand new (as it was released).

I'll try my contact at Yamaha and check this date but my info is coming from a Yamaha-based website anyway. Watch this space.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by mjm3012 » 08 Apr 2009, 01:23

Hello again!

You mentioned that the CLP220 could be bought for £665, I have looked online and can't find one available anywhere, however I have found a YDP140 for £549 which seems reasonable and I wondered if this would be a good buy for a beginner? Would appreciate your advice again please! Have said no now to the secondhand clp 820 for £425....!

Thanks for all your help!

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by markymark » 08 Apr 2009, 14:47

mjm3012 wrote:Hello again!
You mentioned that the CLP220 could be bought for £665, I have looked online and can't find one available anywhere...
With the introduction of the CLP320 almost a year ago now, CLP220 were sold very quickly by many retailers to prevent them getting stuck with old stock. No one would want one when the CLP320 became available to buy. You may be able to find one in a local retailer but it would be a stretch.
mjm3012 wrote: I have found a YDP140 for £549 which seems reasonable and I wondered if this would be a good buy for a beginner?
It would be fine for a beginner but thinking in the longterm, just how far do you think your daughter will go with music? If she was to begin taking piano lessons, the YDP140 would be enough to take her through the first two or three grades.

Do you want a furniture piano? The P85 was also a very good option - I tried one yesterday and was very pleasantly surprised that something so slimeline could produce the firmness and quality sound of larger instruments. The Casio PX-120 is also worth checking out. After months of trying, I also got a chance to try out one of those yesterday. The keyboard action is very respectable although I still prefer the Yamaha piano sound samples.

Try out those three digital pianos and see which one you prefer. One thing about the YDP140 is that some people think it is too sharply voiced and opt for the mellower sounding Casio Privia within the same price bracket.

BTW, the P85 is being stocked for under £500 but is NOT a furniture digital piano.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by andy7862 » 17 Oct 2009, 10:39

Hi there. My name is Andy and I'm a piano teacher from teesside. I must
start with a major disagreement in previous comments. The Yamaha
clp 820 is a great EP, and yes were released in 98 but were available
for new purchase till 2004 at main stockists, but it is very possible
for a smaller business to have them available much later. The EP would
be more than enough for you all the way up to professional. (I have one
myself). If anything I would say you are spoilt to have the opportunity to
learn on a great EP. The price was good. They tend to go between 400
and 525 second hand for the clp 820. Although it is an older model, and
other sounds may suffer because of it, the main piano sound and
weight of the keys are not much different from the new EP's out today.
The CLP 820 would be more than you need for any kind of piano. Unless
You are wanting to record songs and create sounds then look at the korg.
triton range. However if its just piano you are learning. Any 88 weighted key
EP would see you through. I personally favour the CVP 75 clavinova. But the CLP
820 would see you through. Sorry to go on a bit, but I hope this helps.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by markymark » 18 Oct 2009, 00:51

andy7862 wrote:Any 88 weighted key EP would see you through.
Right through to "professional" level? Absolute nonsense! I dare you to post something like that on the teaching piano section and hear what other piano teachers think of that idea!

A quick search online and you find CLP9XX going for £450. If you know anything about digital pianos, the hammer actions have changed, sampling has improved and as a result, basic expressiveness is better. While the CLP820 may "get you through" and may be okay as an instrument, compared to MODERN models, it doesn't compete. To say otherwise would suggest that Yamaha has done nothing at all with their product range since 1998!

As for "major disagreement", the only thing you dispute is that the CLP820 digital piano is good enough to support a child through their classical piano training. I would have to say that not everyone would agree with that. For recording purposes, which I don't think was mentioned, the modern Clavinovas support USB data forms which allow you to save you performances. For piano sound and keyboard action, a Korg Triton would not even be a consideration for me!

As I read through my posts, I didn't say that the CLP820 was a bad keyboard, did I? I stated that for the same money a current model could be procured.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by andy7862 » 18 Oct 2009, 10:55

Whoops!!! I seem to have hit a nerve. Forget recording, and sampling and alternative sounds.
An 88 key weighted would be enough to reach professional level. I must stress... Do you really
Think you would be any better as a pianist if you had CVP or a CLP? Weather you purchased one
In 98 or 2009? Do you think the difference would help you learn faster?

I appreciate that yamaha have improved the clavinova range since 98. But the main difference is shown
Through sounds and added features. All I'm saying is if you turn off the clavinova and play it, both a modern
Model and an older one, the difference in playing them is miniscule.

Sorry if I have offended you. But I totally dissagree with your advice saying that it would only be suitable upto grade 3.

joseph
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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by joseph » 18 Oct 2009, 13:48

Can I just add, that even with 128 voice polyphony, the digital piano will STILL cut out notes on certain pieces such as Rachmaninoff's C-sharp minor prelude - the end section with the thick chords. This is because the sustain pedal, key off samples and stereo sampling eat up polyphony. It's not SUCH a problem but when you're used to a real piano you miss the resonance. That piece frequently features around grade 7/8.

Surely then, you'd be best not to buy a piano that only features 64 note polyphony, because the stereo sampled piano will only be 32 note.

I think in a roundabout way I am saying, go for the most modern and up market model you can afford.

Incidentally, no digital piano will take you up to professional PIANIST level, although of course they can take you to professional KEYBOARD PLAYER level - just as high a level of skill involved but in a different direction.

joseph
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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by joseph » 18 Oct 2009, 13:51

andy7862 wrote: I appreciate that yamaha have improved the clavinova range since 98. But the main difference is shown
Through sounds and added features. All I'm saying is if you turn off the clavinova and play it, both a modern
Model and an older one, the difference in playing them is miniscule.

Sorry if I have offended you. But I totally dissagree with your advice saying that it would only be suitable upto grade 3.

The difference in key weight may be minimal, but the difference in response, which is down to the new sampling and processors, is huge. The old CLP-360 from 1988 feels pretty nice, and even by todays standards has a decent touch. Compare it with the new CLP-370 from today, and it's like a toy in terms of sound.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by markymark » 18 Oct 2009, 14:08

andy7862 wrote:Sorry if I have offended you. But I totally dissagree with your advice saying that it would only be suitable upto grade 3.
Well then we'll have to agree to disagree. I can assure you that you haven't offended me or hit a raw nerve, just simply balancing the disagreement of views with the reasons for what I have said - I do quite enjoy a good discussion or exchange of views but as for the note above, I stand by that view. I do advise elsewhere on these forums that digitals will be okay up to Grade 5. For Grade 6, 7 and 8, as you will be aware, the examination board look for more interaction with the instrument, something which is just not possible to develop with a digital model.

As this is a forum with opinions, the accuracy of the information is contained in the majority view. Joseph is a teacher and you've heard what he said. I think you'll find that a using a digital piano from the 90s with its "hammer effect" keyboard action (not even graded hammer action) could not possibly have the same quality of interaction with the instrument as a child who has spent time learning and practising on an acoustic.
I must stress... Do you really think you would be any better as a pianist if you had CVP or a CLP?

No! Because they have the same keyboard actions and sound samples as their CLP counterpoints.
Weather you purchased one In 98 or 2009? Do you think the difference would help you learn faster?
Yes I do! Have you heard of AWM Dynamic Stereo Sampling ? Or polyphony? Or CF Sampling? Or 4 layer stereo sampling? GH3 hammer action? Or even Instrumental Active Field Control? With respect, unless you have been looking in the digital piano market recently, you probably won't have because your CLP820 doesn't have ANY of these things. I'm not going to take time to re-explain all these features because they are already contained on the Digital Pianos FAQ section of the forum but in a nutshell, combined, all these features take huge steps towards emuating the effects, tone and touch of an acoustic.

By all means, learn on an acoustic and you can manage well on a digital because the playing skills are transferrable but doing it the other way around does not work as well, particularly for children who have a very linear way of learning. If they can get way with belting the keys or over-playing with the volume down, transfer that to an acoustic piano and you have a disaster in an examination situation!

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice please.

Post by joseph » 18 Oct 2009, 18:32

Good point about belting!

The school I work at bought a CLP-370 for my teaching room which is OK, but they really should have bought a U1. I tell my pupils to be careful not to bang the Clavinova, and if it makes a hard sound (if it triggers the highest sample level) they are banging. I'd prefer everyone to learn on an acoustic, just as Mark said. Then, when they play on digitals in certain situations they wont find it so much of a problem.

If they have to buy a digital, perhaps for space reasons or maybe cost reasons (although with a CLP-380 costing as much as an upright . . . . ) then they should buy the best they can afford and not look for something on the cheap. It's funny you know, some of my least well off families will try to buy the best pianos and some of my wealthiest (and teaching in that school, I have some seriously wealthy kids...) will buy the cheapest nastiest most useless piece of plastic that they can get away with.

In answer to the original question, I think that a CLP-820 shouldn't cost more than £350 because it's not even as good as the new ARIUS. If it was the higher spec 880 from the same year I might consider it but its not that good by todays standards, although it was good for the time.

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Re: Yamaha CLP 820 - Decent second hand purchase? Advice ple

Post by Daz » 01 Sep 2016, 15:46

Hi all,

I realise this post is old now but hopefully someone will pick my message up as I am in the same position. I want to learn on something decent but due to budget (£400) am restricted. So far I have tried a few Clavinovas, Kawai, Technics and Casio. For me, I prefer the touch/feel and sound of the Yamaha and there are lots of second hand models on the auction website. I'm just a bit confused as to what would be the best one to go for with my budget?

P.s. I am literally a few weeks into learning so any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks.

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