New piano

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JayJay
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New piano

Post by JayJay » 28 May 2010, 23:04

I'm looking to upgrade from a small Kemble, and on my short list of new pianos that I have played and liked are Zimmerman Z1 (£11,000ish), Kawai K5 (6700), Yamaha SU7 (10,900). I realise there should be some negotiating on these prices. What do you think of this short list, and what would be a fair price?

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Barrie Heaton
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Re: New piano

Post by Barrie Heaton » 29 May 2010, 17:10

JayJay wrote:I'm looking to upgrade from a small Kemble, and on my short list of new pianos that I have played and liked are Zimmerman Z1 (£11,000ish), Kawai K5 (6700), Yamaha SU7 (10,900). I realise there should be some negotiating on these prices. What do you think of this short list, and what would be a fair price?
for me sound wise it's the Z1 but the SU7 action is better with tweaking

I would read this post
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/vi ... 42&start=0

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crispin
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Re: New piano

Post by crispin » 30 May 2010, 08:32

I am not sure if it is relevant - but I can find the Zimmermann Z1 advertised in France for 8590 euros = 7300 GBP - which is quite a reduction from the £11,000 that you quote. Having said this - I also say that I would never buy a piano (again) at the place I see this Z1 advertised at. We bought a Bechstein Academy A124 - this piano is very similar in construction to the Zimmermann...

Now I am more educated with this piano choosing business, I have been amazed at the differences between examples of the same piano. I am sure that how the piano is set up at the store plays a big role - but I suspect that each piano is individual and during fabrication differences are built it. I also believe that the environment that the piano lives in at the retail store plays a role.... so the dealer that sells a piano at the lowest price is not always the best deal. Choose the dealer with great care! Do not believe that an ugly tone can be dramatically improved by a little 'voicing'. Voicing done by the wrong person can be a real disaster. The piano should sound excellent at the retail store and be perfectly set up... MAKE SURE THAT THEY WILL DELIVER THE EXACT PIANO THAT YOU SELECT.

Re our Bechstein A124 ... this is and continues to be an excellent piano .. excellent tone and excellent touch etc. So I would add this to the list as it should be a similar (but a bit more expensive) than the Z1. I also recommend to install a Dampp Chaser system - right from the beginning. This system has kept our piano in perfect tune... this keeps the soundboard at the correct humidity in addition to all the working parts and felts, etc.

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Re: New piano

Post by joseph » 30 May 2010, 13:32

Out of these 3 pianos, I'd pick the Yamaha SU7. The Zimmermann is a good piano but I don't think its close to the Yamaha quality, and I think the Yamaha will retain its value better. £10900 sounds like a good price to me, aren't they retailing for much more than that?

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Re: New piano

Post by JayJay » 30 May 2010, 21:38

Thanks for the advice, I'm finding it quite difficult choosing. I'm happy to pay a fair price, but I don't want to be a mug and get ripped off. The SU7 has a huge reduction on its list price of £18500, and may represent the best value. My daughter (who is a better pianist than I am) really liked the Kawai K5, which is considerably cheaper and has a more mellow tone than the SU7. The Z1 shop offered a good reduction- I bought my Kemble from there a 15+y ago, and they offered me what I payed for the piano in part-ex, and more (we didn't clarify how much more, but I paid 2500 for the Kemble). The K5 salesman didn't budge beyond free delivery & "the full after service"- 8week tune etc.
It seems to be difficult to compare prices at different places, as most places don't list there instrument prices on the net- it's all POA.
I also realise it's better to pay more for a properly prepared instrument, and piano shops need to make enough profit to survive.
I think I'll have to get my daughter to play the Z1 & SU7 and see which she prefers.

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Barrie Heaton
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Re: New piano

Post by Barrie Heaton » 30 May 2010, 22:03

JayJay wrote:It seems to be difficult to compare prices at different places, as most places don't list there instrument prices on the net- it's all POA.
You are going to see this more. Retailers are been told not to put discounted prices on the web

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mdw
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Re: New piano

Post by mdw » 31 May 2010, 07:12

If the Yam is showing massive discounts from list that says 2 things to me. Either they think you are a mug and have put a huge increase on the price so they can show a huge discount ( seems to be their market) , or they are having problems shifting them. Kawai on the otherhand seems to show a little more self control. If you daughter likes the Kawai and by chance its priced better I would buy the Kawai.

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Re: New piano

Post by JayJay » 31 May 2010, 08:28

You're right mdw, the shop were upfront that they couldn't sell the Yam anywhere near it's RRP, as people would not pay that much for an upright Yam. I think it's a great piano, and apparently many people like it but if they have £18500 to spend they end up getting a Bechstein, which I guess would have better resale value.

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Re: New piano

Post by JayJay » 01 Jun 2010, 17:58

I've just found a dealer with a new K6 on offer £1100 cheaper than the K5 list price, so I'm going to try it tomorrow. If we like it as much as the K5 we'll definitely buy it. I'm hoping we'll like it more than the K5, as it is the next model up, with longer strings and longer keys, which might help control.
Excited!!

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Re: New piano

Post by markymark » 01 Jun 2010, 23:13

Just bear in mind that a bigger piano needs a bigger room to do the sound justice!

JayJay
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Re: New piano

Post by JayJay » 01 Jun 2010, 23:47

That's a fair point. I need to persuade my wife the TV needs a smaller room!
The existing music room is 13.5x11 foot, but planning to move house in 1-2y, when a bigger music room is high on the list of essentials. Also playing loud is probably more difficult for me and my daughter due to a genetic neurological condition (Charcot Marie Tooth). We're quite lucky to be able to play OK, as some people with our condition get quite disabled by it. My daughter recently got grade 7 with a distinction. I'm sure that piano playing is good therapy for my hands, and helps to preserve function- they seem to work better when I play more, but I guess that's true for everybody.
I haven't played a K6 yet, but I found it much easier to play the K5 quietly than to play my small Kemble quietly.
Thanks for the advice.

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Re: New piano

Post by ggglhf » 08 Jun 2010, 08:22

Zimmerman Z1 (£11,000ish), Kawai K5 (6700), Yamaha SU7 (10,900).
I'd like to choose Yamaha SU7 (10,900),it is very fair.

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