My daughter is moving on to Grade 6 and we have a Bechstein grand (c1900) that is in need of a rebuild (wrestplank split, hammers ...). What would the pros and cons be, for having this rebuilt (not least the investment!) compared to buying a new upright?
I am aware of some of the costs, I am thinking more in terms of her development on an older (tone, repetition etc.) versus newer piano and the impact this might have on her enjoyment and success in exams.
Any thoughts very welcome.
Bechstein B rebuild or buy a new upright?
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Barrie Heaton
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The B if done well will out perform any upright and your daughter will appreciate the control a grand can offer on Grade 7 -8 pieces.
Having said that; As the piano is not for you, once your daughter has left the nest like most young ones she will not have cash to buy a place that can accommodate a grand.
You will be stuck with it, bin there! - the same money spent on say a Bluthner or Yamaha SU7 she will get lots of joy and with a bit of luck be able to take it with her
Barrie,
Having said that; As the piano is not for you, once your daughter has left the nest like most young ones she will not have cash to buy a place that can accommodate a grand.
You will be stuck with it, bin there! - the same money spent on say a Bluthner or Yamaha SU7 she will get lots of joy and with a bit of luck be able to take it with her
Barrie,
Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page
Web Master UK Piano Page
Re: Bechstein B rebuild or buy a new upright?
Depends who you get to rebuild it. There are some sheisters out there who can really ruin it further and charge you for the privilege. A high quality restoration by someone who knows what he's doing will cost you a minimum of 6K, probably nearer 8, plus the dreaded VAT.VivienneA wrote:My daughter is moving on to Grade 6 and we have a Bechstein grand (c1900) that is in need of a rebuild (wrestplank split, hammers ...). What would the pros and cons be, for having this rebuilt (not least the investment!) compared to buying a new upright?
The Bechstein almost certainly *could* be made to sound (and look) good again, but there's no way that anybody can predict anything about how it will ultimately sound. The new upright option at least gives you the chance to try out a number of pianos and hear what they sound like and how they feel before you commit to buy.
If you decide to go down the restoration route, always make sure there's a good example of the restorer's work available to try before you submit your piano.
So far, so good - thank you. The more information the better I think.
It is a lot of money but it would be a shame to just 'scrap' something so beautiful. But if the money is spent and the sound/touch is not significantly better, then I would wonder why I'd had it rebuilt.
The upright option sounds possible (certainly from the mobility point of view later) but then I wouldn't want to spend so much. It would feel like an 'extra' piano. Can you suggest less expensive uprights that would be good. Also, could you explain what you mean by the grand 'out performing any upright' and the added 'control' at Grade 7/8 please?
Sorry to sound so ignorant, it seems to be a case of the more I ask, the less I feel I know!
Thank you.
It is a lot of money but it would be a shame to just 'scrap' something so beautiful. But if the money is spent and the sound/touch is not significantly better, then I would wonder why I'd had it rebuilt.
The upright option sounds possible (certainly from the mobility point of view later) but then I wouldn't want to spend so much. It would feel like an 'extra' piano. Can you suggest less expensive uprights that would be good. Also, could you explain what you mean by the grand 'out performing any upright' and the added 'control' at Grade 7/8 please?
Sorry to sound so ignorant, it seems to be a case of the more I ask, the less I feel I know!
Thank you.
Dear Vivienne
I've thought about this new vs restored issue for MANY years. Pianists - as opposed to piano technicians - are at the mercy of the piano trade because they simply haven't got the expertise on purely technical matters. There are actually only a handful of really talented, obsessed-with-detail, highly skilled piano restorers/rebuilders in the entire UK. There are plenty of people with lots to say who can take a piano apart, do this-n-that to it, give it a splash of varnish and stick it back in the showroom at 3 or 4 times the price they paid for it at auction
The crucial question in any restoration is 'has the SOUND been restored?'. Properly restored vintage pianos to my mind DO sound better than new ones. Words that spring to mind are: magic....inspiration....full-spectrum....presence.....character.....
I have put a deposit down on a 1920s Bechstein C (7ft 4in) which has been completely rebuilt with a few customisations too (sostenuto etc) and is such a good instrument that I bought it within minutes of first trying it. I'm also about to commit to having my large vintage Chappell upright completely rebuilt. This is madness of a sort because it isn't a 'name' piano but it happens to be an excellent instrument in a very nice case. I can't find a new upright anywhere that remotely compares for sound
So, I think, in general, if you have a 'name' vintage piano and can find a really reputable rebuilder/restorer I would take that risk because if it goes well (and it SHOULD do with the right restorer) it will turn out to have a more magical, more inspiring sound and better playing characteristics than most new pianos
Feel free to contact me: sir_prize_45@hotmail.com
I've thought about this new vs restored issue for MANY years. Pianists - as opposed to piano technicians - are at the mercy of the piano trade because they simply haven't got the expertise on purely technical matters. There are actually only a handful of really talented, obsessed-with-detail, highly skilled piano restorers/rebuilders in the entire UK. There are plenty of people with lots to say who can take a piano apart, do this-n-that to it, give it a splash of varnish and stick it back in the showroom at 3 or 4 times the price they paid for it at auction
The crucial question in any restoration is 'has the SOUND been restored?'. Properly restored vintage pianos to my mind DO sound better than new ones. Words that spring to mind are: magic....inspiration....full-spectrum....presence.....character.....
I have put a deposit down on a 1920s Bechstein C (7ft 4in) which has been completely rebuilt with a few customisations too (sostenuto etc) and is such a good instrument that I bought it within minutes of first trying it. I'm also about to commit to having my large vintage Chappell upright completely rebuilt. This is madness of a sort because it isn't a 'name' piano but it happens to be an excellent instrument in a very nice case. I can't find a new upright anywhere that remotely compares for sound
So, I think, in general, if you have a 'name' vintage piano and can find a really reputable rebuilder/restorer I would take that risk because if it goes well (and it SHOULD do with the right restorer) it will turn out to have a more magical, more inspiring sound and better playing characteristics than most new pianos
Feel free to contact me: sir_prize_45@hotmail.com
Exactly! As mentioned, check out the restorer thoroughly first! There are many sharks out there who profess to be wonderful, and just as many who'll ship the old girl off to Poland for a cheap workmanlike makeover and charge you handsomely for the privilege. There are a few restorers in your area who are excellent, so try seek them out!VivienneA wrote:
It is a lot of money but it would be a shame to just 'scrap' something so beautiful. But if the money is spent and the sound/touch is not significantly better, then I would wonder why I'd had it rebuilt.
I would shortlist a Yamaha U1 or one of its many derivatives. There are many threads on this here forum that discuss them.VivienneA wrote:The upright option sounds possible (certainly from the mobility point of view later) but then I wouldn't want to spend so much. It would feel like an 'extra' piano. Can you suggest less expensive uprights that would be good.
A grand with the type of action fitted to your Bechstein (a 'roller' action) offers quicker repetition than an upright (without the need for the key to have returned to its uppermost position) and better expression leading to a better range of loud/soft dynamics. All assuming it's in good working order of course!VivienneA wrote:Also, could you explain what you mean by the grand 'out performing any upright' and the added 'control' at Grade 7/8 please?
Good luck!
PG
Some comments from web sites. These are not in any way any kind of recommendation for the shops, please take account of the above posts.
Cracks on Bechstein frames: http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/vi ... tein+crack
Comment on grands control , action etc
http://www.robertspianos.com/grands.php
http://www.robertspianos.com/restoration.php
Restored or new: http://www.courtneypianos.co.uk/restored.html
New or rebuilt
http://www.chrisvenables.co.uk/new_vs_rebuilt.htm
Cracks on Bechstein frames: http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/vi ... tein+crack
Comment on grands control , action etc
http://www.robertspianos.com/grands.php
http://www.robertspianos.com/restoration.php
Restored or new: http://www.courtneypianos.co.uk/restored.html
New or rebuilt
http://www.chrisvenables.co.uk/new_vs_rebuilt.htm
Thank you, these are all really helpful comments. I think we need to go on a few visits to experiment with sound and feel etc. Any more thoughts though would be gratefully received.
Just another quick question, the sostenuto pedal - is this becoming a necessity and does it make a considerable difference, should it be part of any possible rebuild spec?
Just another quick question, the sostenuto pedal - is this becoming a necessity and does it make a considerable difference, should it be part of any possible rebuild spec?
Absolutely not.VivienneA wrote: Just another quick question, the sostenuto pedal - is this becoming a necessity and does it make a considerable difference, should it be part of any possible rebuild spec?
If the action didn't have one originally, there's really no point. SirPrise's piano has had a brand new action fitted, so clearances etc could be changed to fit the mechanism. Very little music is written for it since 99.9% of uprights don't have it fitted and cheap grands (esp. in the less-discerning US market) often substitute the full sostenuto system for a bass-sustain only arrangement.
A high quality rebuild need not have a total action replacement to be successful.
I agree with Barrie Heaton that a good rebuild on a Bechstein B grand piano would be much more musically rewarding than an upright piano could give.
The outcome of a rebuild, however is not completely predictable and it is essential to find a rebuilder of excellent credentials and try the examples of his or her work.
A piano always deteriorates with age and given the age of the Bechstein piano the restorative work could be very expensive and extensive. Possibly the soundboard would need replacing as well as action parts, pinblock and strings.
The danger is that you spend can spend a large amount of money for little improvement in the end result.
There are many practical advantages in the purchase of a new upright piano and even a new European vertical piano would be less than the cost of a full grand piano rebuild.
I would seek impartial, professional opinion on the current condition and potential of the Bechstein grand and then if the decision is made to restore, choose the most reputable rebuilder you can find.
All the best!
RWAS.
The outcome of a rebuild, however is not completely predictable and it is essential to find a rebuilder of excellent credentials and try the examples of his or her work.
A piano always deteriorates with age and given the age of the Bechstein piano the restorative work could be very expensive and extensive. Possibly the soundboard would need replacing as well as action parts, pinblock and strings.
The danger is that you spend can spend a large amount of money for little improvement in the end result.
There are many practical advantages in the purchase of a new upright piano and even a new European vertical piano would be less than the cost of a full grand piano rebuild.
I would seek impartial, professional opinion on the current condition and potential of the Bechstein grand and then if the decision is made to restore, choose the most reputable rebuilder you can find.
All the best!
RWAS.
I love the piano and its music.