Copeland london piano

[Hayles503]

Hi, I have been offered a free copeland london piano from a church hall. I have no idea on pianos but would like one for my children to have a go on and it just needs to be in tune enough to learn some basic pieces. We tried it today but to my untrained ear it sounded quite out of tune and not that nice! Is it a good make and would it be possible to get it tuned up and sounding ok? Also do I need to be careful about woodworm or anything else in an old piano that's been sitting round uncared for for quite a while? I think I really need to take a piano tuner along but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Hayles503

Welcome to the forum.
We offer free and professional help & info here on this forum - top tips, and impartial/ general advice. If you are outside the UK, please let us know. I'm doing my Agony aunt bit now,,,,, so read on >>>>

The piano is very old indeed - over 100 years old.... possibly dated around 1900 - 1910 (by its shape). The name "Copeland" is a made up name with a stencilled decal on the front .... known as a 'stencil' piano (look up 'Stencil pianos' on google). Sorry - but this piano has no history or value..... and the name cannot be traced. It was common practice to name piano with famous composers/ reputable city or towns names to give the piano more appeal - but in the early 1900s - they used to reel out bottom-end market pianos with no names on, and a small factory in London would buy a cheap gold decal.... to make it look 100 dollars. Some of these pianos still exist today - but many have been given the Viking's funeral!

We get hundreds of enquiries about free pianos/ £10 pianos.... and they all come with risk..... some greater than others.
If you are going to move the piano to your home (?) .... and pay for a removal team, then I advise you to get it checked out first in the church hall by a piano tuner - they may just charge call-out for a quick test & inspection. Depending on how friendly you are with the piano owner/ organiser.... even if you are best of mates, they will be rubbing their hands together with glee HOPING that you take it away.... this is why it's free.... so there is no come back on them..... sounds cruel, but its true. The 'seller' may have been told in the past that the piano was not tuneable or serviceable any more.... and they would have to pay about £50 themselves to have it taken away by the council.... hence, now YOU come to the rescue....... or do you? !

Even when these pianos are scrapped - it is heart rendering .... and if you are told this after the piano has been moved.... Mummy will have a very upset child. However, it may be tuneable - keep your fingers crossed.

I wouldn't worry about woodworm so much in the UK.... but it could have insect/ arachnid damage inside the mechanism. However, if any tuning pins are loose/ cracked wrest plank/ other tuning issues, then it cannot be tuned successfully. Perhaps a suggestion to get it checked out first in the hall, then if OK, have it moved. If the piano is staying in the hall - then no harm done.... but once you have it moved.... you may become attached to the piano.... even if it is condemned & cannot be tuned,

There are a few repairs that can be done if the odd note does not tune up.... but take care.... these pianos can be a money pit. There is also no such thing as a free piano.... you might pay the price later.

Church halls (and churches/ chapels etc) are renowned for sudden and extreme changes in temperature and humidity.. so the mechanism may not function correctly. If the mechanism is the "spring & loop" design (ask your tuner) .... then best to walk away. From the keyboard design - this piano seems to be straight-strung and over-damped.... they are Ok on some pianos - but often need regular maintenance to keep them in tune.

If in doubt - leave it alone.... and perhaps buy a cheap digital piano with weighted keys to start with. When children learn tunes on a piano, they should hear the notes in tune. If the piano is just for tinkering - no piano lessons basis/ learn a few easy tunes only.... then go for it.... and just pay for the removal, and keep your fingers crossed when you eventually have it tuned later

One more thing.... the top photo showing the rear of the piano.... there seems to be two vertical wooden posts missing - right hand side? .... and exposing part of the rear wrest plank (where it is recessed).... this top area of the piano is where the bass tuning pins are driven into - bearing about 16 - 18 TONS of force on the soundboard etc..... so there may be serious structural problems and tuning issues.... best you get this checked out.

Hope that helps

Colin

[Hayles503]

Thank you very much, that does help put some perspective on it. The plan would be to transport it to our house so I did definitely want to be sure before getting it stuck there! I optimistically hoped we would be able to get it to ours on a large trailer we have available although not sure on the man power required! I will definitely arrange a tuner/restorer to come and look at it before we commit. Thank you. (Ps arachnid damage...shudder I don't even like to think!)

[Colin Nicholson]

Good luck with that.
Yes.... old (and new) pianos can be hit with allsorts of creatures & critters .... and the maggot can rip through a piano mechanism like a nuclear war.... sometimes they cause so much damage, it can cost thousands to put right. They can also find their way under the keyboard.... if the backing cloth is missing OOPS!
One simple way to test for insect damage (but not fully guaranteed until looked over) .... is to play all the keys.... then if you hear a single clicking/ tapping noise (per key) when you let go of a key fairly quickly .... there may be damage inside.... open the top lid and listen inside.

If the piano partly tunes OK during the inspection, only time will tell whether it stays in tune or not over a period of time.... this is often why people sell their piano. Don't expect a well tempered piano.... this piano may have some structural damage - and I suspect it has been dropped on its back due to the 2 posts missing.