Should traders be allowed to use an alias?

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markymark
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Should traders be allowed to use an alias?

Post by markymark » 21 May 2009, 20:49

This thread has been separated from the A-frame thread which drastically went off topic.

I have continued it here as under the discussion title "Should traders be allowed to us an alias?"

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chrisvenables
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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by chrisvenables » 22 May 2009, 00:02

So if it's no secret, why doesn't he say who he is? ? I think he's Hecksher himself. If he isn't, who is he?

Pro's should be up front and say who they are. What's the problem in a professional saying who they are. Why do they want to hide behind an avatar??

The public have a right and a reason to be anonymous. The trade (dealers and tuners, but not teachers) should have the decency to say who they are. If they don't, they are obviously ashamed of their status or have an ulterior motive.

Pianoworld forum USA has a condition, that any trade body has to identifty themselves as to exactly who they are, ie no avatars. Why doesn't UK piano forum follow their example with the same degree of strictness??

Let's get this forum up and running as it should be, the public asking questions and pros giving advice as a professional body instead of a bunch of fictitious anonymous individuals which no-one can take as 100% true.
Yamaha Piano Main Dealer since 1981. www.chrisvenables.co.uk

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by PianoGuy » 22 May 2009, 07:42

chrisvenables wrote:Pianoworld forum USA has a condition, that any trade body has to identifty themselves as to exactly who they are, ie no avatars. Why doesn't UK piano forum follow their example with the same degree of strictness??
I don't know *why* Chris, but the forum rules when I joined stated that posters may post anonymously. That's part of the reason I joined, effectively part of a contract, and if that right is removed then I go too. Oh, and an avatar is the little picture that one can use as decoration to one's identity. I think you mean alias, not avatar!
PG

The opinion above is purely that of PianoGuy and is simply the opinion of one person ....

If you're buying a piano, try as many as you can and buy the one you like, not a similar one of the same type.

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by longbow » 29 May 2009, 07:56

Hi Cris, Longbow here. You sound like the townie who moved to the country then complained that the animals made to much noise. If you don't like the set up here ...........!

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by PianoGuy » 29 May 2009, 08:02

Have to agree with Longbow, old boy!

Rules is rules, and them's the rules!! ;-)
PG

The opinion above is purely that of PianoGuy and is simply the opinion of one person ....

If you're buying a piano, try as many as you can and buy the one you like, not a similar one of the same type.

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by Barrie Heaton » 29 May 2009, 18:53

PianoGuy wrote:Have to agree with Longbow, old boy!

Rules is rules, and them's the rules!! ;-)
Like MPs there are Rules and there is bending the rules to suite for financial gain, if a shop hides behind a alias and then keeps pushing that shop as if they have no connection. That is taking advantage of the forum and deceiving the general public, as what happened on pinaoworld, result all had to declare who they were and quite a few good tuners stopped posting. Its the independent tuners who tend to give the best unbiased advise to posters.


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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by chrisvenables » 30 May 2009, 00:31

longbow wrote:Hi Cris, Longbow here. You sound like the townie who moved to the country then complained that the animals made to much noise. If you don't like the set up here ...........!
I've always lived in the country. But I suspect you live, or at least work, in Camden Town.

Just say who you are if you're not Heckscher - ashamed of who you are or what? Likewise PG. What's the big secret?

Take Barrie's advice and jump before you're pushed.
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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by PianoGuy » 30 May 2009, 00:34

'Bye then.
PG

The opinion above is purely that of PianoGuy and is simply the opinion of one person ....

If you're buying a piano, try as many as you can and buy the one you like, not a similar one of the same type.

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by joe » 31 May 2009, 13:03

Barrie Heaton wrote:
PianoGuy wrote:Have to agree with Longbow, old boy!

Rules is rules, and them's the rules!! ;-)
Like MPs there are Rules and there is bending the rules to suite for financial gain, if a shop hides behind a alias and then keeps pushing that shop as if they have no connection. That is taking advantage of the forum and deceiving the general public, as what happened on pinaoworld, result all had to declare who they were and quite a few good tuners stopped posting. Its the independent tuners who tend to give the best unbiased advise to posters.


Barrie,
Like all trades there are people with vested interests and piano tuners are no exception many send theirs clients not to the best retailer locally but to the one who offers the highest commissions,there are few exceptions a rare breed nowadays.Some tuners offer independent,impartial advice but many are not in touch with the everchanging piano retail market.The forum is being used to promote the new boys on the block who see it as a way of promoting brands of pianos the general public have never heard of.The best advice when buying a piano is to visit the premises of an established piano firm who have a track record and aftersales service,and as we always tell the customer to get a brand they may recognise,and also buy from a piano/keyboard specialist,not a general music shop who often generalise in everthing but specialise in nothing

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Re: A-Frame for school C3

Post by Barrie Heaton » 31 May 2009, 14:49

chrisvenables wrote:
Take Barrie's advice and jump before you're pushed.
Chris no ones anonymity will be taken away, if posters don't follow the rules or the spirit of the rules they will be warned by one of the moderators if they persist then action will be take to remove them that is it. The ABPT who own the site also wish to keep the anonymity in place as it has been from the start

As a retailer I know you can't understand why someone would not wish to promote their shop but that is their choice

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Re: Should traders be allowed to use an alias?

Post by sirprize » 05 Jun 2009, 16:42

I want anonymity to remain. It's the only way to get frank comments posted up even if they offend people. I'm not a tuner/technician but a pro musician and principal of a music school. I want to see all shades of opinion posted in here without fear of intimidation. I want to see good as well as bad practice EXPOSED unhibitedly

KEEP ANONYMITY OR LOSE THE MOST VALUABLE CONTRIBUTIONS IN HERE

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Re: Should traders be allowed to use an alias?

Post by markymark » 05 Jun 2009, 18:57

:arrow: Reiteration of the use of aliases on the UK Piano Page Forums

Before getting the main point here, I should also mention that this thread was a split topic from another thread that evolved and went off topic in the Pianos forum. This thread only really exists now to reinforce the fact that the concept of giving up anonymity is very much a dead-end issue because anonymity will never be a point for discussion or revision in the future. The forum rules regarding the use of aliases are clear and the 7000 or so members we currently have on the forum have agreed to these at the time of registering. To make any changes at this point would give cause for some to review their future memberships, as other have mentioned, and perhaps rightly so, particularly if they felt they had to disclose their true identities. The issue here raised however, was more geared towards traders and, to some extent, tuners - teachers, educators, professional musicians, general members of the public, etc. were never involved in this point by those who raised it.

The Moderating Team and the ABPT who own the forum do not support and never have supported the view that this should be changed. The rules governing use of aliases will continue to remain as are; specifically with regard to the use of aliases, nicknames and usernames that preserve privacy and personal identity from other members on the forum. Of course members may disclose their name, business, residence if they chose to do so, but maintaining anonymity is a privilege that our members have a right to maintain of they so wish.

While we do encourage people with ideas for improving the forum by way of additional features or modifications to the forum, any future posts raising the 'anonymity issue' will be promptly removed.
This topic is now officially closed.

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Post by istrickl » 13 Jun 2009, 23:10

Well, I've lurked on this site often enough and it's fair to say, it's been part of my education for buying my own piano. This was an interesting topic and not just in the piano world. It applies to all forums where one section of the community may have a vested interest in promoting a particular point of view with a possible resulting financial gain. Granted, I'm not massively keen on telling everybody on every forum I'm on, my personal details, however, I don't see what's wrong with everybody knowing if a post is from a member that is 'in the trade'. Other members may then use this information as they see fit, and this doesn't necessarily mean that this is a negative thing; you may well see this as indicative of a higher level of education and expertise in the topic being discussed. In short, I was rather surprised at the rather heavy handed censorship of further discussion of this topic by the 'owners' of this site. I'm new, I'm not a piano expert; I'm a keen, if very amateur musician, with an interest in the instrument I play and I'd like to be able to 'weight' postings with information about the posters background - it isn't necessarily that important to know exactly who they are.

What about it; anyone; or is rules rules...

Cheers,
Anonymous
(not in the trade)

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Re: Should traders be allowed to use an alias

Post by markymark » 13 Jun 2009, 23:28

I'm surprised this has come up again. This has already been addressed - quite a few times in fact.
istrickl wrote:In short, I was rather surprised at the rather heavy handed censorship of further discussion of this topic by the 'owners' of this site.
The "owners" of the site, namely the ABPT, is the owner of the site and these forums. It has made the call which is the final decision as far as the rest of us are concerned. I wouldn't call locking the thread "censorship". Put simply, there's no point in flogging a dead horse. The topic is not worth discussing because it won't change anything save for inflaming another argument among members, the effects from which some members are still recovering. If you had been "lurking around" recently, you will have read the mess this topic has caused already.

If you want to know about the "expertise" of posters, then look at their profile or their signature (which appears at the bottom of their posts). Most have chosen to indicate their indentity and trade but that is their choice. The forum membership terms and conditions do not force people to state who or what they are in relation to pianos and music. If it were to happen, this would only ever have effects on new members as current members like myself have agreed to the terms and conditions of membership that offer the option to remain anonymous. At the end of the day, some things are non negotiable and this is one that the ABPT has made very clear. Besides discussing that "I don't agree with their decision", there really is nothing else to say about the matter.

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Re: Should traders be allowed to use an alias

Post by Barrie Heaton » 16 Jun 2009, 00:24

The rule has been there since day one
Wile we would like retailers to say who they are, we leave it up to them

Why? simple the piano trade in the UK is small, if a tuner or a shop says bad things about a make or product they can be penalised This has happened in the past, I know of tuners who pointed faults about a make and lost concert work over it. A retailer in the US lost a franchise, I myself was threatened with league action which was dropped.

Negative comments made by the trade about pianos or products on this forum providing they are justified can be made with out fear of being got at by interested body's

There is no such thing as free speech if you rock the boat in a small pond the wave will come back and knock you out of the boat, so you spend the rest of your working life chasing the boat or you swim for land and find a new pond to play in.

The rule stays

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